Say it like this.

[Steven D]

It could be that there are quite a few ideas about teaching pronunciation. At beginner levels I find it's not an idea at all. I just say, "Say it like this. That's it. You got it. That sounds like English. The other way sounds like French." You've got to start it right at the beginning or else it could be a problem later. Does that sound unreasonable? I don't think it does.

I think minimal pairs are only problems if we draw attention to them for no apparent reason. Minimal pairs are to be dealt when it's necessary and only when it's necessary. The same thing goes for individual sounds. Of course, I'm talking about teaching people that already know the Roman alphabet and know how to read in English.

I teach pronunciation at the same time that I teach grammar. They're inseparable. The more I continue, the more I remember to do this. Grammar and pronunciation have to be taught at the same time consistently.

[Marylin]

English pronunciation belongs to the study of English along with phonetics, syntax, semantics, etc.and true, those things are inseparable. I know of some people whose mere interest is to write and read in English - nothing more, nothing less. That goes for some of my realtives still living in Europe. One of them is a Physics professor whose writing skills in English are spectacular but if he were to say something in English, you would really end up scratching your head....but all he wants is to read and write in English.
Pronunciation has never been a big thing, never really mattered one way or another.
Just a little digression...
Teaching students is different. Getting a head start on proper pronunciation is important but putting kids in booths with head phones on to practise minimal pairs (or having you do this with them) seems a bit much. I also don't think it's a good idea. This comes with time and getting a handle on the very basics in grammar and pronunciation should be a priority. Without that, hell with phonetics and whatever else. If the student doesn't know how to express himself by using horrible grammar, then what's the point in polishing his sounds or pairs?
When I used to teach, pronunciation wasn't so much of an issue but certain parents used to put a lot of pressure on me for all kinds of things, including not giving his/her kids enough chance to participate in class. Turns out the kid was way in the back row somewhere working on his math homework.
No comment.

[Steven D]

English pronunciation belongs to the study of English along with phonetics, syntax, semantics, etc.and true, those things are inseparable. I know of some people whose mere interest is to write and read in English - nothing more, nothing less. That goes for some of my realtives still living in Europe. One of them is a Physics professor whose writing skills in English are spectacular but if he were to say something in English, you would really end up scratching your head....but all he wants is to read and write in English.
Pronunciation has never been a big thing, never really mattered one way or another.
Just a little digression...
Teaching students is different. Getting a head start on proper pronunciation is important but putting kids in booths with head phones on to practise minimal pairs (or having you do this with them) seems a bit much. I also don't think it's a good idea. This comes with time and getting a handle on the very basics in grammar and pronunciation should be a priority. Without that, hell with phonetics and whatever else. If the student doesn't know how to express himself by using horrible grammar, then what's the point in polishing his sounds or pairs?
When I used to teach, pronunciation wasn't so much of an issue but certain parents used to put a lot of pressure on me for all kinds of things, including not giving his/her kids enough chance to participate in class. Turns out the kid was way in the back row somewhere working on his math homework.
No comment.

I think a lot of pronunciation learning and teaching has to do with awareness.

Listening to someone say "I - ave - A - see-stEER." and then not saying anything is something I can't see. That was a French speaker. If it's caught now, it won't trouble him too much later. And something like this could be troubling, as pronunciation is connected to listening skills. After he repeated what I said, he sounded like he was speaking North American English. It takes practice, however. I think he'll get it.

Focusing on minimal pairs is okay if it's minimal.

Generally speaking, I focus on sentence and phrase pronunciation - suprasegmentals. That would be linking, intonation, and sentence stress.

I deal with individual sounds as needed. I really couldn't see letting Shahin continue with Rs that are trilled. I explained it. She wasn't even aware of it. It can make a difference.

Students aren't even aware of pronunciation sometimes. Their pronunciation is part of who they are. For some it's difficult to change, so it's good to start as soon as possible.

To me if one speaks of accent one is speaking of pronunciation - for the most part.

And while I'm thinking about it, I'll say contractions are the norm. Spoken English that does not use contractions is more the exception. I think contractions should be emphasized from the start.

Teaching students is different. Getting a head start on proper pronunciation is important but putting kids in booths with head phones on to practise minimal pairs (or having you do this with them) seems a bit much.

Not a good idea at all. And those booths are too expensive.

[Steven D]

[QUOTE=X Mode]It could be that there are quite a few ideas about teaching pronunciation. At beginner levels I find it's not an idea at all. QUOTE]


At more advanced levels, pronunciation seems to be more of an "idea". That's when it really takes practice and some explaining. It's hard to tell someone who is fluent to just "say it like I do". There's a bit more to it.

[Steven D]

Please don't put a curlicue at the end of everything you say.

Thanks!

[Marylin]

Please don't put a curlicue at the end of everything you say.

Thanks!

Pardon me?

[Marylin]

Focusing on minimal pairs is okay if it's minimal.

I think I said the same thing.

Students aren't even aware of pronunciation sometimes. Their pronunciation is part of who they are. For some it's difficult to change, so it's good to start as soon as possible.

And that's why phonetic booths come in really handy, except the kids wouldn't be thrown in a sound booth right from square one.
They worked great for me and my fellow teachers. Huge help.
Sound booths are pretty basic invention when you think about it. The price of a headset can range from $10 to a hundred or more. You need to hitch that up to a main sound recording device and there you have it.

Love talking to you, X.

[Steven D]

Focusing on minimal pairs is okay if it's minimal.

I think I said the same thing.

Love talking to you, X.

Yes, you said the same thing. I just thought it was really clever to use "minimal" twice in the same sentence that way, so I did. It seems to have turned out rather well I'd say. Yes, indeed it has.

Thanks, it's a pleasure talking to you too.

Do you usually put a comma before "too"? I know some people do - I won't mention any names - but I don't like a comma before "too". I don't really think it's necessary.

Here's some minimal pair stuff: http://international.ouc.bc.ca/pronunciation/

And here's something else that's kind of interesting. I think I'll give it a closer look and a listen. http://www.onestopenglish.com/tefl_s...n_practice.htm

[Steven D]

Pardon me?

When the intonation at the end rises, it sometimes sounds like a curlicue. It can start to sound weird after a while, and it just reminds me of a curlicue. If a curlicue had a sound, that's what it would sound like. Maybe it's really nothing at all, and I'm hearing things in the twilight zone. Who knows?

[Marylin]

Yes, you said the same thing. I just thought it was really clever to use "minimal" twice in the same sentence that way, so I did. It seems to have turned out rather well I'd say. Yes, indeed it has.

Thanks, it's a pleasure talking to you too.

Do you usually put a comma before "too"? I know some people do - I won't mention any names - but I don't like a comma before "too". I don't really think it's necessary.

Here's some minimal pair stuff: http://international.ouc.bc.ca/pronunciation/

And here's something else that's kind of interesting. I think I'll give it a closer look and a listen. http://www.onestopenglish.com/tefl_s...n_practice.htm

I won't mention any names

I don't think you should have a problem with that.


but I don't like a comma before "too".

No way, reaaaally? I don't think I really care, X....

Thanks for the links. I'll dust off those books about phonetics and see how they compare.