Batter and Butter RP

Hi guys, just wondering what the difference is between these two words in recieved pronunciation. Is there a difference?


butter - batter
cut - cat



etc...



Is it just me who thinks they sound the same? How do you make the destinction?

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Originally Posted by LordJenkins

Is it just me who thinks they sound the same? How do you make the deistinction?

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If you were German, I could understand your question. The vowel in the German 'hat' is roughly midway between the English 'hat' and 'hut'.

However, you say that your native language is English. As far as I know, most English dialects recognise a difference between the sounds you write about.

Cut: in southern BrE and General AmE: /kʌt/; in some northern BrE dialects: /kʊt/
Cat: in most dialects: /kæt/

We are talking about two clearly different vowels when we consider cut and car.

The vowel “a” in “batter” pronounced with an ash /F/ while the “u” in “butter” with /ž/. This is perhaps how a Canuck like me pronounces the two words.

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Originally Posted by Buddhaheart

The vowel “a” in “batter” pronounced with an ash /F/ while the “u” in “butter” with /ž/. This is perhaps how a Canuck like me pronounces the two words.

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What IPA program are you using? Your transcriptions appear as /F/ and /ž/ on my screen.

To Fivejedjon,

Cut: in southern BrE and General AmE: /kʌt/; in some northern BrE dialects: /kʊt/
Cat: in most dialects: /kæt/


So, some Northern BrE speaking use / ʊ / instead of / ʌ /
Will people from USA or Australia or NZ or Canada understand it ?
How about mug, mud, bug, bully, cuddle, dusk, hurry, jug, luggage, nut, up, etc ?

Many thanks

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Originally Posted by Raymott

What IPA program are you using? Your transcriptions appear as /F/ and /ž/ on my screen.

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I’m glad the IPA symbols showed up the way I intended. Sorry I didn’t use any “IPA program.” I inserted them from those available in Word’s WP Phonetic Symbols list.

'æ' is a very American sound. It exists in British RP, but then it often leans a bit towards sounding like 'e,' as in 'let,' 'wet,' 'met,' etc. If you think of 'batter' and 'cat' in this way, you might hear more of a distinction from the ʌ sound ('butter,' 'cut').

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Originally Posted by duiter

So, some Northern BrE speakers use /ʊ/ instead of /ʌ/
Will people from USA or Australia or NZ or Canada understand it ? Usually, yes. They might not understand an individual word spoken out of context, but there is usually no problem in context. Vowels differ far more in dialects than consonants, and speakers of one dialect may sound strange to speakers of another; there is usually not too much problem with accent, though there may be with lexis and idiom.
How about mug, mud, bug, bully, cuddle, dusk, hurry, jug, luggage, nut, up, etc ? For many speakers of Northern BrE there is no contrast at all between /ʌ/ and /ʊ/. Such speakers will pronounce all those words with a vowel close to /ʊ/. 'Bully' has that vowel for speakers of RP.

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Originally Posted by fivejedjon

most English dialects recognise a difference between the sounds you write about.

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But apparently they're similar enough to be rhymed in some dialects.

YouTube - The Jolly Beggar - Planxty 1980 (2:50)
By the way, I'm not sure whether he pronounces "undone" with /ɒ/ (this is my guess) or /ʌ/ in the rime.

Some British/Irish/American folk songs/singers have fun with stretching rhymes. Linguists ignore them at their peril, but must be wary about basing any theses on folk songs alone.