How do I pronounce a th ending word that is in plural?
For example: swath /swɑθ/ and swaths? /swɑθz/ ?
I ask, because, If it is /swɑθz/, I find it difficult to produce a sibilant (s sound) after a /th/ sound.
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How do I pronounce a th ending word that is in plural?
For example: swath /swɑθ/ and swaths? /swɑθz/ ?
I ask, because, If it is /swɑθz/, I find it difficult to produce a sibilant (s sound) after a /th/ sound.
I say /sweɪð/ and /sweɪðz/. With a word like month, the plural /mʌnθs/ can be difficult to pronounce- my wife's Japanese and a very good English speaker, but she always says something like /mʌnθɪz/.
You don't hear voiceless th at all, unless you wanna sound foreign or sound academic. It is a fronted sibilant (fronted s, if th is voiceless; if not, fronted z).
months = pronounce like munts
Well, I thought it was like raindoctor said, however, just trying now I realize I can do /th/ + /s~z/, but it just feels a little strange, because I am basically transitioning from one sound to the other pretty quickly. After /th/ I quickly pull in the tongue and let out a sibilant. Technically speaking it works.
I don't remember this being a problem before, however I just recently thought about it and wanted to ask here.
I was not clear earlier. th + s = an allophone of s = fronted s. No more that business of clearly articulating th, which is peddled by the ignorant 'elite'!
There is a similar phenomenon: s + th, leading to fronted z.
That sort of comment is unnecessary.Quote:
Originally Posted by raindoctor
In informal conversation, I tend to say /mʌn(t)s/. If I am speaking more thoughtfully, I quite naturally say /mʌnθs/. I do not consider myself elitist when I use the second form; I like to think that I am not ignorant.
My apologies, fivejedjon. No native speaker is ignorant. However, when it comes to teaching others, they end up teaching citation form pronunciations, citation form sentences.
Let me give a concrete example.
When I was in India, I was looking for bus that goes to a town, spelled as "Vijayawada" in Indian English. When I asked local speakers there about its pronunciation, they gave me "citation" form. In speech (not presidential, of course), I dont hear anything closer to that citation form, because all approximants in that language get deleted in high frequency words. This is what I have in mind. Native speakers do many things, without being aware of all that go in there. When native speakers are questioned about non-citation forms, they say 'yeah, I know that; I speak in so and so contexts': I am not questioning this 'knowing'!
To me, the elite = those who teach citation forms, making the learners content with whatever the little they have mastered. This fits well with toastmaster/presidential speeches, singing, etc.
.
Phonetics, phonology, rhythm, melody, etc--all these are gradient. Citation forms sit at the entrance of this gradient.
If I retract the tongue in time before the /s/ sound comes in, it seems to work.
You are over-generalising. Most of us native speakers in the TEFL world who are professional teachers teach the natural pronunciation of words.The LPD, which gives commonly accepted forms gives, as I do, /mʌnθs/ - with /mʌn(t)s/ as an alternative. the EPD gives only /mʌntθs/.Quote:
Originally Posted by raindoctor
There is no evidence for your claim: "You don't hear voiceless th at all, unless you wanna sound foreign or sound academic".
How do you spell the word? "Swath" or "swathe"?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tdol