o AND O: sound ???

[j4mes_bond25]

Since taking a rather keen interest in Phonetics, I wonder about the "rules" (if there's any) in case of identifying in certain sounds.

As far as identifying the difference between "o" (as in "hot") & "O:" is concerned (as in "water"), I remember while flipping through the pages of some Phonetic based book, it said something like the general rule being if the spelling has "letter o" in it then it gets pronounced with "sound o" but if it hasn't got "letter o" then it gets pronounced with "sound O:".

Bearing this in mind, it made sense in identifying sounds in words like: water, assault, hall, ball, etc. having "sound O:" since the spelling of the word has NOT got letter "o" in it.

However, if that was the case, I wonder why does the word like "cauliflower", "alter", "alternative", "fault" etc. has "sound o" rather than "sound O:".

Any idea about the rules in identifying what sound occurs where ???

[Tdol]

Also, there are words (London) where it isn't a 'sound o'. I think this is more of a guideline than a rule.

[j4mes_bond25]

Also, there are words (London) where it isn't a 'sound o'. I think this is more of a guideline than a rule.

Well, I wasn't asking THAT naviely though ;) Since "London", "monk", etc. makes sense, having NO confusion at all. However, it's ONLY in "o & O:" sounds that I'm having confusion.

If the "letter o" has any other sound such as in "monk", etc. I've NO confusion at all, since that's how it is.

Some other sound identification that I need to delve into are words would be "salt" having "o sound" while "sauce" having "O: sound".

Do you reckon, if "al" is followed by "t" could be a reason for having sound "o" rather than "O:" ??? Although that's a long shot, for sure.

[Tdol]

-alt does seem a fairly consistent pattern. However, what about 'halter', which I think I have heard with both sounds?

[j4mes_bond25]

-alt does seem a fairly consistent pattern. However, what about 'halter', which I think I have heard with both sounds?

Halter again has "sound o" as in "hot".