Dark L

[BobK]

Originally Posted by alienvoord

My phonetics textbook says that the /l/ at the end of words like "little" is velarized. I don't see why velarization would prevent the lateral being released.
Maybe I don't understand what lateral plosion is?

My understanding of lateral plosion is Best Before End June 1974, but as I understand it a dark L is what you get at the end of 'leek' rather than 'little'.:

/li:k/

dark L - closure at the hard palate

/ki:l/

clear L - closure at the soft palate

/'litl/

lateral plosion (some people put a schwa in there, but I don't - unless I'm imitating the Goon Show - Bluebottle certainly said /'litəl/, but he also labialized the final /l/.)

In fact, the closure for the /l/ phoneme is a long way forward in 'little': the tip of the tongue is busy making the closure for the /t/, and all the speaker does to achieve lateral plosion is release pressure laterally; I don't think it's dark at all.

But if your book talks about /l/ with lateral plosion as being intrinsically dark, so be it; it just seems to me to be missing a trick, according to my memory of this stuff.


b

[alienvoord]

Originally Posted by BobK

/li:k/

dark L - closure at the hard palate

/ki:l/

clear L - closure at the soft palate

Have you got these backwards? Dark /l/ is before back vowels and word finally.
Also, there is no closure at the hard palate, is there? Dark /l/ is velarized, so its primary articulation is still alveolar, but the back of the tongue is approaching the velum as well.

Maybe the articulation of dark /l/ is more variable than I thought.

/'litl/

lateral plosion (some people put a schwa in there, but I don't - unless I'm imitating the Goon Show - Bluebottle certainly said /'litəl/, but he also labialized the final /l/.)

needle nardle noo.

[alienvoord]

In fact, /l/ has alveolar or dental closure, but not palatal or velar closure. Dark /l/ has alveolar closure, and the back of the tongue approaches the velum - but doesn't touch. At least that's what I learned.

[BobK]

Originally Posted by alienvoord

Have you got these backwards? Dark /l/ is before back vowels and word finally.

Yes

Originally Posted by alienvoord

Also, there is no closure at the hard palate, is there? Dark /l/ is velarized, so its primary articulation is still alveolar, but the back of the tongue is approaching the velum as well.

Maybe the articulation of dark /l/ is more variable than I thought.
[/INDENT]
needle nardle noo.
[/INDENT][/INDENT]

My phonetics teacher said that the Goon Show was just 'applied secondary articulation'. Sounds less fun, that way, Min.

b

[Abdul]

Originally Posted by alienvoord

My phonetics textbook says that the /l/ at the end of words like "little" is velarized. I don't see why velarization would prevent the lateral being released.

Maybe I don't understand what lateral plosion is?

Lateral release can occur whether the /l/ is "clear" (plain) or "dark"(velarized) provided that the /l/ is syllabic, i.e. if you pronounce 'bottle' with a schwa vowel between the /t/ and the /l/, there is no lateral release of the /t/. Alternatively, if you do not insert a schwa betwee these two consonants, you can still prononce the word and at the same time you maintain that it is made of two syllables. The /l/ in this case functions as the nucleus of the second syllable (hence it is called "syllabic /l/"). What happens is that the /t/ is released through the two sides of the mouth (lateral release), unlike the pronunciation with a schwa where the /t/ is released with the tongue lowered. Lateral release can occur whether the back of the tongue is raised twards the velum for velarization or not.