English Language Discussion Forums


Go Back   UsingEnglish.com ESL Forum > Learning English > Pronunciation and Phonetics

Quick Links
Sites for Teachers


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-Apr-2009, 14:45
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Country: Taiwan
Posts: 180
Current Location: Taiwan
First Language: mandarin
Member Type: Student or Learner
WUKEN is an unknown quantity at this point
Default a phonics confusing question

Hello, there:
I have a question about phonics.
When I dictate a word , for example , the term " John", I would probably write it into "Jon".
My question is that since" H" in the term"John" is silent. I don't understand why it , h ,exists in some words.
Could you please tell me the rule?
Thanks a lot!

Last edited by WUKEN; 12-Apr-2009 at 15:03.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 12-Apr-2009, 15:13
Soup's Avatar
VIP Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,548
Current Location: Shanghai, China
First Language: English
Member Type: English Teacher
Soup has a reputation beyond reputeSoup has a reputation beyond reputeSoup has a reputation beyond reputeSoup has a reputation beyond reputeSoup has a reputation beyond reputeSoup has a reputation beyond reputeSoup has a reputation beyond reputeSoup has a reputation beyond reputeSoup has a reputation beyond reputeSoup has a reputation beyond reputeSoup has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: a phonics confusing question

Hi WUKEN

If you can hear the sound [h], then transcribe it/write it. If you can't hear it, then don't.

The <h> in John isn't pronounced, so don't transcribe it/write it, but it is heard in the word hat, so write [haet].
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Soup For This Useful Post:
  #3  
Old 12-Apr-2009, 15:49
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Country: Taiwan
Posts: 180
Current Location: Taiwan
First Language: mandarin
Member Type: Student or Learner
WUKEN is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: a phonics confusing question

Thanks for Soup's explanation.
So since I can't hear the sound" H" in the term John and some words, why it exists in the words?
I still don't understand.Could you please tell me the rule?
Thanks a lot!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-Apr-2009, 15:57
Soup's Avatar
VIP Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,548
Current Location: Shanghai, China
First Language: English
Member Type: English Teacher
Soup has a reputation beyond reputeSoup has a reputation beyond reputeSoup has a reputation beyond reputeSoup has a reputation beyond reputeSoup has a reputation beyond reputeSoup has a reputation beyond reputeSoup has a reputation beyond reputeSoup has a reputation beyond reputeSoup has a reputation beyond reputeSoup has a reputation beyond reputeSoup has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: a phonics confusing question

Quote:
Originally Posted by WUKEN View Post
Thanks for Soup's explanation.
So since I can't hear the sound" H" in the term John and some words, why it exists in the words?
I still don't understand.Could you please tell me the rule?
Thanks a lot!
The reason, historical sound change. Modern English John comes from Latin Johannes, wherein the letter <h> was pronounced.

____________________
Online Etymology Dictionary

John
masc. proper name, c.1160, from M.L. Johannes, from L.L. Joannes, from Gk. Ioannes, from Heb. Yohanan (in full y'hohanan) lit. "Jehovah has favored," from hanan "he was gracious." As the name of John the Baptist and John the Evangelist, it was one of the most common Christian given names, and in England by early 14c. it rivaled William in popularity. O.Fr. form was Jean, but in England its variants Johan, Jehan yielded Jan, Jen (cf. surname Jensen). Welsh form was Ieuan, (see Evan), but Ioan was adopted for the Welsh Authorized Version of the Bible, hence frequency of Jones as a Welsh surname. Feminine form was Joan, Latinized as Johanna. Colloquial John Hancock "signature" (1903, sometimes, through some unexplainable error, John Henry) is from the signer of the Declaration of Independence, either from his signing first or most prominently. The family name is attested from 1276 in Yorkshire, a dim. (see cock) of Hann, a very common given name in 13c. Yorkshire as a pet name for Henry or John. Johnny-come-lately first attested 1839.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Soup For This Useful Post:
  #5  
Old 14-Apr-2009, 04:01
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Country: Taiwan
Posts: 180
Current Location: Taiwan
First Language: mandarin
Member Type: Student or Learner
WUKEN is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: a phonics confusing question

So let me set another example" Buddha"
Since the" H" doesn't make a sound.
I am wondering why H in the term" Buddha" exists in the word.
Does it also relate to historical sound change?
I am wondering how native speakers know that they have to add the silent " H" when they transcribe some words like that.

Could you please specify it for me?
Also , could you please correct my description if it 's not right?

Thanks a lot!!!

Last edited by WUKEN; 14-Apr-2009 at 04:08.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 16-Apr-2009, 23:55
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Country: Pennsylvania - USA
Posts: 8
Current Location: Pennsylvania - USA
First Language: English
Member Type: Other
SoothingDave is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: a phonics confusing question

Unfortunately, there are no universal "rules" about silent letters such as these. Native speakers learn through memorizing. "Spelling" is studied in schools from the earliest years.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to SoothingDave For This Useful Post:
  #7  
Old 17-Apr-2009, 12:03
Anglika's Avatar
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Country: UK
Posts: 18,911
Current Location: UK
First Language: English
Member Type: Other
Anglika has a reputation beyond reputeAnglika has a reputation beyond reputeAnglika has a reputation beyond reputeAnglika has a reputation beyond reputeAnglika has a reputation beyond reputeAnglika has a reputation beyond reputeAnglika has a reputation beyond reputeAnglika has a reputation beyond reputeAnglika has a reputation beyond reputeAnglika has a reputation beyond reputeAnglika has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: a phonics confusing question

It also helps to investigate the etymology of words - their history and development.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Anglika For This Useful Post:
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
[Grammar] Is this an indirect question? newtothis Ask a Teacher 3 17-Aug-2008 20:32
Sometimes the question is get posted 2 times even though the question is posted only bspkumar Support Area 2 08-Aug-2008 00:04
Question about answer, reply,take care ... JJD Ask a Teacher 9 25-Aug-2006 02:24
Types of question Jupiter Ask a Teacher 2 15-Jul-2006 10:33
Language Question ??? j4mes_bond25 General Language Discussions 3 14-Jul-2006 07:33


All times are GMT. The time now is 09:22.


vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.3.0
Copyright © 2002 - 2009 UsingEnglish.com