[Vocabulary] ill logic or ill-logic instead of illogic

[birdeen's call]

Would you consider using "ill logic" or "ill-logic" instead of "illogic" a mistake?

 

[emsr2d2]

That depends.

1) That's an illogical statement. Correct.
2) That statement is based on ill logic. Correct.
3) That statement is ill-logic. Incorrect.

I can't imagine using ill-logic at all.
Ill logic as an adjective+noun combination is fine.
Illogical as an adjective on its own is fine.

It would completely depend on context.

 

[birdeen's call]

That depends.

1) That's an illogical statement. Correct.
2) That statement is based on ill logic. Correct.
3) That statement is ill-logic. Incorrect.

I can't imagine using ill-logic at all.
Ill logic as an adjective+noun combination is fine.
Illogical as an adjective on its own is fine.

It would completely depend on context.

Yes, however, I didn't mean "illogical", but "illogic" -- a noun. I understand that you endorse the phrase "ill logic". I don't see anything wrong about it personally either, but I have found that there is only a single hit for it in the BYU corpora, and one in which the use of the adjective "ill" is forced by the context. Because of this, I thought that, since "ill logic" sounds the same as "illogic", "ill logic" might perhaps be frowned upon as a misspelling. This is not the case then, thank you.

 

[emsr2d2]

Yes, however, I didn't mean "illogical", but "illogic" -- a noun. I understand that you endorse the phrase "ill logic". I don't see anything wrong about it personally either, but I have found that there is only a single hit for it in the BYU corpora, and one in which the use of the adjective "ill" is forced by the context. Because of this, I thought that, since "ill logic" sounds the same as "illogic", "ill logic" might perhaps be frowned upon as a misspelling. This is not the case then, thank you.

Ah, I understand now.

That statement is based on ill logic.
I can't believe the illogic of that statement!

I don't think "ill logic" would be viewed as a misspelling if it was clear that you know the meaning and how to use it, which I believe you do. The danger you would have would be with people who have no idea that illogic is a noun and is simply the opposite of logic!

 

[SoothingDave]

I've never used or seen "ill logic" used as a noun. I would say "faulty" or "flawed" logic.

 

[Rover_KE]

I've never used or seen "ill logic" used as a noun. I would say "faulty" or "flawed" logic.

I agree. I didn't know ill logic existed and would certainly never consider using it.

I've forgotten it already, BC, and suggest you do the same.

Rover

 

[5jj]

I agree. I didn't know ill logic existed and would certainly never consider using it.

I've forgotten it already, BC, and suggest you do the same.

I agree with Rover and SoothingDave.

 

[BobK]

I've never used or seen "ill logic" used as a noun. I would say "faulty" or "flawed" logic.

:up:Or 'bad' or 'self-serving' or 'specious' or 'spurious' or (very informal) 'duff' or 'dodgy'. I can imaging contexts where it might be used: for example - 'I'm not saying the argument is illogical; perhaps I would just say it shows ill logic' - a rather dubious play on words. But I've certainly never heard it either.

b

 

[Route21]

Hi BC

To add to what the other folks have said...

The prefix "ill-" in "illogical" has the same relationship to the word "ill" as it does in "illegal" or "illegitimate" - i.e. none!

It merely negates the word, in the same way as similar prefixes in: innoxious, impenetrable, ignoble, irrefutable, irrevocable, invariable.

Hope this helps
R21

 

[Barney55]

illogic is a word that means: Invalid or incorrect reasoning.

Its adjective is illogical that can be used as :

1. Your statement for this seems to be totally illogical.
2. I don't like illogical reasoning at all.

 

[BobK]

Hi BC

To add to what the other folks have said...

The prefix "ill-" in "illogical" has the same relationship to the word "ill" as it does in "illegal" or "illegitimate" - i.e. none!

It merely negates the word, in the same way as similar prefixes in: innoxious, impenetrable, ignoble, irrefutable, irrevocable, invariable.

Hope this helps
R21

There's a rule; but learning the rule takes almost as long as learning all the apprent exceptions. And even then, there's still an exception: ignoble.

If you think of the prefix as 'iN-', then you can use these transformations:

'iN- + <word>' -> 'in + word. (e.g. inactive, incapable, indecent, inequitable, infamous, ingratitude, inhospitable... etc)

UNLESS the following word or morpheme starts with one of these:

• bilabial consonant, then 'iN- + <word>' -> 'im + <adj>' (improbable,imbecile, immaculate etc)
• 'l', then 'iN- + <word>' -> 'il + <word>' (illogical, illegal etc.)
• 'r', then 'iN- + <word>' -> 'ir + <word>' (irregular, irredeemable, etc)

The apparent counter-example 'inbred' isn't, because its 'in-' prefix isn't the same as the polarity-reversing 'iN-' prefix.

b

 

[emsr2d2]

Sorry, I should have made it clear that I was not connecting "illogic" to "ill logic". I simply meant in the original post that, when spoken, the two sound very similar. I also should have pointed out that I have not heard "ill logic" used since about 1987 when my A Level English teacher used to use it quite regularly. I too wouldn't encourage its use. "Flawed logic" is indeed much better.

I shouldn't post when I haven't had much sleep!