gerund in extraposition

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rockpoison

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Hi
We extrapose parts in sentence to make a sentence more balanced, and preparatory 'it' is usually used.
In this part, I heard that 'gerund is not almost extraposed but a vert few cases,'
(ex. it is nice seeing you today.)
I know it is not usual as 'it is difficult studying Eng.' is not available.
Then when can be exactly gerund used with preparatory it? by which standard?
 

TheParser

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'It is difficult studying English.' is not available.
***** NOT A TEACHER *****

Hello, Rockpoison:

Thank you very much for introducing me to the term "extraposition." I had never realized that there were limitations on gerund phrases being transposed.
I have checked my books and the Web. May I share something with you?

1. You say that "It is difficult studying English" is "not available." I assume that you mean it is not a proper sentence.

a. I found a book by two experts who seem to have a different view.

i. They say that in "at least some [my emphasis] speakers' dialects, the gerundives [gerunds] can also optionally undergo IT-inversion."
They give these examples:

(a) It is dangerous feeding bears.
(b) It is fun climbing mountains.
(c) It is difficult driving in heavy traffic.

ii. It seems that some native speakers would have no trouble with "It is difficult studying English."

-- Malmstrom and Weaver, TRANSGRAMMAR (1973).

2. In a short post, it is impossible to tell you everything that I found. Here is another expert's opinion. He states that gerund clauses "generally resist [my emphasis] extraposition.

(a) "It was easy understanding the lesson." (He does not accept that sentence.)
(b) "It came as a complete surprise to his coach Herb's winning the gold medal." (Neither does he accept this sentence.)
(c) "It would be no use protesting the new policies." (He DOES accept this sentence.)

-- Cowan, THE TEACHER'S GRAMMAR OF ENGLISH (accessed in the "books" section of Google).

3. Let me finish this short post with two scholars' opinion: "Extraposition of a participle [gerund / -ing word] clause is possible ... but is not very common outside informal speech."

a. "It was easy getting the equipment loaded." (They accept this. Compare: "Getting the equipment loaded was easy.")
b. Informal examples, they say, frequently involve negative + use / good:

i. It's no use telling him that.
ii. It wouldn't be any good trying to catch the bus.

-- Quirk and Greenbaum, A CONCISE GRAMMAR OF CONTEMPORARY ENGLISH (1973).

EDIT: I have decided to add just ONE more thing (I promise!).

One scholar says "It was stupid telling my parents" is NOT acceptable but "It was stupid TO TELL my parents" is OK. / "It would make things worse calling the police" is NOT acceptable, but ""It would make things worse TO CALL the police " is OK.

-- Callies, INFORMATION HIGHLIGHTS (2001). (Accessed in the "books" section of Google.)
 
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sitifan

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One scholar says "It was stupid telling my parents" is NOT acceptable but "It was stupid TO TELL my parents" is OK. / "It would make things worse calling the police" is NOT acceptable, but ""It would make things worse TO CALL the police " is OK.

-- Callies, INFORMATION HIGHLIGHTS (2001). (Accessed in the "books" section of Google.)

Information Highlighting in Advanced Learner English: The syntax pragmatics interface in second language acquisition (2009)

https://books.google.com.tw/books?id=PZQ5AAAAQBAJ&pg=PA48&dq="It+was+stupid+telling+my+parents"&hl=zh-TW&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjGuLrFt6X7AhUbet4KHWLuDPUQ6AF6BAgIEAI#v=onepage&q="It was stupid telling my parents"&f=false
"It would make things worse calling in the police." "It would make things worse TO CALL IN the police."
 
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Tarheel

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I am fairly sure that in both British English and American English it's "call the police" -- not "call in the police".
 

sitifan

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I am fairly sure that in both British English and American English it's "call the police" -- not "call in the police".
[12] i It was stupid to tell my parents /?telling my parents.
ii It would make things worse to call in the police /?calling in the police.

Here the extraposed infinitivals are impeccable, but the gerund-participials are at best very marginal, though the basic versions are quite unproblematic (Telling my parents was stupid; Calling in [my bold] the police would make things worse). Gerund-participials with an overt subject, especially a non-pronominal one, are particularly resistant to extraposition: Kim and Pat getting married had taken us all by surprise, but not *It had taken us all by surprise Kim and Pat getting married. Note that gerund-participials differ from infinitivals in that they can undergo subject-auxiliary inversion (cf. Will getting Ed to agree to our proposal be a problem?), so extraposition is not obligatory in this context.21 Gerund-participials in complement function are the most NP-like of subordinate clauses, and the fact that they are less amenable to extraposition than the other subordinate clause categories is a further manifestation of this.
https://english.stackexchange.com/q...estion-its-difficult-knowing-which-one-to-cho

"It would make things worse to call in [sic] the police."
 
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Tarheel

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It was stupid to tell my parents. Yes.
Telling my parents was stupid. Yes.
 
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