[General] Do kids in UK / US hear and speak fluently even before they learn the alphabet?

[fruitninja]

Do kids in UK / US hear and speak english pretty fluently even before they learn the alphabet, reading and writing? I don't really remember how i did learning my native language, because it was too long ago. And; I'm not a parent, so i don't know what kids do. I ask this question because I want to know how kids learn english, and somehow imitate the way they do. They just speak so easily, almost with no conscious effort.

 

[jutfrank]

Many children can utter meaningful sentences around the age of two years. Some well before that. Reading and writing come much later, typically at five or six in the UK.

Children learn to speak in their own time, but to read and write they need somebody to help them.

 

[jutfrank]

I didn't know Tarzan could read and write. I'm now puzzling over how it's possible to be able to read but not speak. Would he not hear his own voice as he read?

Also, where does one find a pen and paper in the jungle?

 

[Tdol]

His parents had left books behind, which he was able to decipher. If I remember the books correctly, he could write, but he couldn't speak. His parents were carrying books to teach him to read, so he worked out the links between the pictures and written words. Mind you, that was one of the less convincing aspects of the books.

 

[Tdol]

Do kids in UK / US hear and speak english pretty fluently even before they learn the alphabet, reading and writing?

Yes, in almost all cases. It would be very unusual for a child to learn the alphabet before they could listen and speak.

 

[GoesStation]

Do kids in UK / US hear and speak english pretty fluently even before they learn the alphabet, reading and writing? I don't really remember how i did learning my native language, because it was too long ago. And; I'm not a parent, so i don't know what kids do. I ask this question because I want to know how kids learn english, and somehow imitate the way they do. They just speak so easily, almost with no conscious effort.

Anglophones may marvel at the ease with which Vietnamese children master their language (which is extremely difficult for adult Anglophones to learn). The difference between the way toddlers and older people learn a language is that the toddlers are simultaneously learning language and a language. They don't have a frame of reference for the complexities of the particular language they're learning; it's just the way the big people around them communicate.

 

[jutfrank]

fruitninja - in case you didn't know, there's a whole field of research dedicated to this subject. It's called language acquisition.

 

[Tdol]

Anglophones may marvel at the ease with which Vietnamese children master their language (which is extremely difficult for adult Anglophones to learn).

Children successfully learn their first languages everywhere. The fact that middle aged English speakers struggle with a language like Vietnamese is a separate issue. Children are hard-wired to acquire language. I'm next door to Vietnam and am studying beginner Lao- my progress is slow. ;-)

 

[andrewg927]

Anglophones may marvel at the ease with which Vietnamese children master their language.

Do you mean Vietnamese children learn their language faster than English-speaking children?

 

[andrewg927]

Do kids in UK / US hear and speak english pretty fluently even before they learn the alphabet, reading and writing?

Kids learn by imitating their parents, and people who surround them. They don't have an understanding of the language just yet but they learn to speak like their parents and how to convey what they want to say in a way resembling their adult ones in their life. This is why people have accents. If their parents have a Southern US accent, almost certainly they will have that accent when they grow up. However, children don't have the kind of language fluency that you would expect an adult. Very frequently, children use words and grammar structures that are incorrect and in some cases don't make sense.

 

[GoesStation]

Do you mean Vietnamese children learn their language faster than English-speaking children?

No. On average, children everywhere learn their first language at the same rate. I meant that it can surprise people when they see small children fluently speaking a language they themselves find difficult. It's not rational but it's a natural reaction.

 

[andrewg927]

No. On average, children everywhere learn their first language at the same rate. I meant that it can surprise people when they see small children fluently speaking a language they themselves find difficult. It's not rational but it's a natural reaction.

Oh well, I think it is probably true for many other languages. I have a friend who tried to study Chinese because he wanted to teach English in China and he found writing in Chinese was extremely difficult, more than speaking it.

 

[Tdol]

Do you mean Vietnamese children learn their language faster than English-speaking children?

I think it means that something that would take an Anglophone adult years to master can be done by a native language child in much less time.

 

[GoesStation]

That's because it is difficult. You need to master at least 3,000 characters before you have functional literacy.

An interesting side effect of the use of ideograms is that it's actually possible to read Chinese without knowing how to speak it.

 

[Tdol]

Japanese and Chinese speakers, who share written characters but not pronunciation, can find writing a better way to communicate.

 

[GoesStation]

And in Japan, people often know the meaning of kanji (ideograms) that they don't know how to pronounce.

 

[tzfujimino]

And in Japan, people often know the meaning of kanji (ideograms) that they don't know how to pronounce.

 

[Tdol]

Mind you, I know some words in English from reading that I have never pronounced, and can get things like the stressed syllable wrong.

 

[andrewg927]

No doubt. A few years ago, I still did not know how to correctly pronounce Asiago (some people pronounced it like Asian Go) or Acai berry (some pronounced it like Akai). LOL.

 

[GoesStation]

Mind you, I know some words in English from reading that I have never pronounced, and can get things like the stressed syllable wrong.

That's certainly possible in English. I'd venture to guess that it's common among avid readers. But we generally have a general outline of the pronunciation even if we mangle it. In Japan, as I understand it, it's extremely common to be able to read and write quite a few words without the faintest idea of their pronunciation.

People driving in unfamiliar areas may stop and ask directions to a place whose kanji name they know. They draw the characters on one palm with the index finger of the other hand, while their interlocutor watches closely. The helpful stranger may then nod and give turn-by-turn directions through towns they also can't pronounce, using the draw-on-the-palm technique to communicate that critical information.