gerrund vs present participle

[keannu]

In many grammar books and questions, talking in 1 is classified as a gerund, while the one in 2, a present participle.
Do you have any criteria to distinguish the two or as I heard from a teacher here, have gerunds and present participles lost their difference in modern English?

1. I don't mind him talking about it.
2. I saw him talking about it.

 

[GoesStation]

I don't think it's a matter of losing a difference. Rather, modern grammarians don't find the distinction their predecessors made to be useful. I certainly can't see anything to be gained by being able to name the two examples differently.

 

[PaulMatthews]

Traditional grammar classifies them as present participles.

But, as you suggest, modern grammar claims that there is no justification for making any inflectional distinction between the two forms.

They then belong to a single inflectional category, often referred to as 'gerund-participles', with the corresponding clauses they head called 'gerund-participials'.

 

[5jj]

They then belong to a single inflectional category, often referred to as 'gerund-participles',.

participles -Quirk et al (1985)
-ing participles - Aarts (2011)
gerund-participles- Huddleston and Pullum (2002)

 

[jutfrank]

Rather, modern grammarians don't find the distinction their predecessors made to be useful.

From a teacher's rather than a grammarian's perspective, I think there often is a useful distinction to be had.

I hope you don't mind my butting in. :tick:
I hope you don't mind me butting in. :tick:

I heard his talking about it. :cross:
I heard him talking about it. :tick:

The difference lies in why both sentences in the first pair are right but the first sentence of the second pair is wrong. I don't think this is really a question about syntax as much as use and meaning—things which modern grammarians are not primarily concerned with. A physicist might tell us that at a basic level of description there is no distinction between time and space or between matter and energy, but we don't look to physicists to teach us how to dance.

 

[emsr2d2]

In many grammar books and questions, "talking" in #1 is classified as a gerund, while [STRIKE]the one[/STRIKE] in #2, it's a present participle.
Do you have any criteria to distinguish the two or, as I heard from a teacher here, have gerunds and present participles lost their difference in modern English?

1. I don't mind him talking about it.
2. I saw him talking about it.

Note my corrections above.