He was very tired because he'd been working hard all day yesterday.

[Michaelll]

Is it ungrammatical to say this?

• When I met him this morning, he was very tired because he'd been working hard all day yesterday.

 

[5jj]

Why would you think that it might be?

 

[Michaelll]

Why would you think that it might be?

I thought it might be because 'yesterday' didn't last until this morning 'when I met him'.

• When I met him this morning, he was very tired because he'd been working hard all day yesterday. (there was a big gap (of about 10 hours) between the time when I met him and when he finished working the day before)

For example,

• Y: Is he in the room? (It's 9:00 in the morning)
  X: Yes, but he's very tired because he's been working hard all day yesterday.

If the present perfect continuous doesn't work here, why would the past perfect continuous work in the first example sentence?

 

[Barque]

The original is all right.

Yes, but he's very tired because he's been working hard all day yesterday.

This doesn't sound right. I'd expect "... because he was working hard all day yesterday".

 

[Barque]

If the present perfect continuous doesn't work here, why would the past perfect continuous work in the first example sentence?

They're different sentences. I'm afraid you're trying to identify a pattern where there isn't one.

 

[Michaelll]

This doesn't sound right. I'd expect "... because he was working hard all day yesterday".

Why not "... because he worked hard all day yesterday"? I don't see any other actions that happened when/while 'he was working'. Does 'all day' require the past continuous?

What do you think about "Yes, but he's very tired because he had been working hard all day yesterday" - the past perfect continuous?

They're different sentences. I'm afraid you're trying to identify a pattern where there isn't one.

Of course they're different. The first one is about past (he was tired), the second one is about present (he is tired), and in both sentences he worked hard the previous day.

1. When I met him this morning (today), he was very tired because he'd been working hard all day yesterday (the day before).
2. He's very tired because he's been working hard all day yesterday (the day before).

 

[emsr2d2]

1. When I met him this morning (today), he was very tired because he'd been working hard all day yesterday (the day before).
2. He's very tired because he's been working hard all day yesterday (the day before).

1. The past perfect continuous, "he'd been working", is correct there because the working came before the being tired.
2. The present perfect continuous, "he's been working", is incorrect. It should be "he was working" or "he worked".

 

[Barque]

Why not "... because he worked hard all day yesterday"?

That doesn't sound as natural.

What do you think about "Yes, but he's very tired because he had been working hard all day yesterday" - the past perfect continuous?

I consider it wrong.

Of course they're different. The first one is about past (he was tired), the second one is about present (he is tired), and in both sentences he worked hard the previous day.

Since they're different, you can't compare them. Maybe that sounds illogical to you but that's how it is.

 

[5jj]

1. He's very tired because he's been working hard all day yesterday (the day before).

That is incorrect because 'He's been working' relates the action to the present time. You can't use it with 'yesterday', a past-time adverb.

 

[Michaelll]

That is incorrect because 'He's been working' relates the action to the present time. You can't use it with 'yesterday', a past-time adverb.

Yes, I know, and that's why I thought the past perfect continuous shouldn't be correct in the first sentence (because - as I mistakenly thought - there was a big gap (of about 10 hours) between the time when I met him and when he finished working the day before).

"He's very tired because he's been working hard all week." - what do you think of this one? Can we say this one, for example, on Sunday, in a situation when "he" worked hard on every day of the week except Saturday and Sunday?

In other words, he worked hard from Monday until Friday. He didn't work at all on Saturday, and we say this sentence on Sunday (he isn't working today, too). Would it work?

 

[Barque]

Yes, it works in that situation. You're speaking from the perspective that the week is not yet complete. Many people consider a week as Monday to Sunday because Monday is the first working day.

 

[Michaelll]

1. The past perfect continuous, "he'd been working", is correct there because the working came before the being tired.
2. The present perfect continuous, "he's been working", is incorrect. It should be "he was working" or "he worked".

In 2 the working also came before the being tired.

1. When I met him this morning (today), he was very tired because he'd been working hard all day yesterday (the day before).
2. He's very tired because he has / had been working hard all day yesterday (the day before). /
3. He's very tired because he was working / worked hard all day yesterday (the day before).

 

[jutfrank]

When I met him this morning, he was very tired because he'd been working hard all day yesterday.

Before I answer, please tell me where you saw this sentence.

 

[Barque]

In 2 the working also came before the being tired.

That's why you need a form of the past tense. It was in the past.

 

[Michaelll]

Before I answer, please tell me where you saw this sentence.

It's mine. I made it up.

That's why you need a form of the past tense. It was in the past.

Well, as I've been told the past perfect continuous wouldn't work there. Even if it's "the past tense".

 

[Tarheel]

It's mine. I made it up.

That explains everything.

 

[Michaelll]

That explains everything.

Still, some people said it was all right #2, #4, #7. Do you think my sentence is incorrect grammatically since "that explains everything" to you?

• When I met him this morning, he was very tired because he'd been working hard all day yesterday.

 

[Tarheel]

@Michaelll We could discuss this endlessly. (It seems like it's gone on forever already.)

It seems like maybe the grammar is okay, but I wouldn't be able to compose a dialogue in which I would use that sentence, and I have written a thousand of them.

Can you devise a sentence in your native language which the grammar seems to be okay, but you've never heard anybody say it?

 

[jutfrank]

It's mine. I made it up.

Ah. As I thought. Please don't do that. Yes, you're right that the word yesterday is very distracting, which is why the sentence is poor.

• When I met him this morning, he was very tired because he'd been working hard all day yesterday.

The problem, which I think you've identified, is that the word yesterday has present-time reference (that means it relates to the moment of speaking) whereas the verb phrase he'd been working hard has past-time reference (since it refers to a point before a point in past time.) This mismatch is distracting, so regardless of whether you think the sentence is 'grammatical' or not, it's certainly badly expressed.

 

[5jj]

• When I met him this morning, he was very tired because he'd been working hard all day yesterday.

The problem, which I think you've identified, is that the word yesterday has present-time reference (that means it relates to the moment of speaking)

I don't see that at all. Yesterday has past-time reference - the day before today. It does not relate to the moment of speaking.