I believe I did more than what you asked of me.

[Dominik92]

Hello


Why native speakers didn't decide to use past perfect in the following examples?

• I believe I did more than what you asked of me.
• You were speaking to a homicide detective who flew 2000 miles to investigate a double murder for which you are clearly the prime suspect.
• Throwback to 2016, when Fernando Torres scored his 100th goal for Atlético Madrid and celebrated with the man who spotted his talent as a young child and brought him to the club.

From my point of view, it's quite clear the action (asked,flew,spotted) happened BEFORE (I did, You were speaking, Torres scored). What's even more confusing for me is the fact that my teacher told me it might even be more natural not to use past perfect for a native speaker? How come? Why would it be more natural not to use past perfect in such examples? Would it be possible to compare it with example sentences where it's definitely necessary to use past perfect and tell me why it's not the case with "mine"? Thank you very much!

 

[jutfrank]

We often don't use the past perfect because for whatever reason it isn't necessary. Think of the past perfect as a device that you can use to make your speaking/writing clearer or more interesting, not as something you're obliged to use. Don't think of the past perfect simply as a way to sequence events in time—there's more to it than that.

 

[Dominik92]

We often don't use the past perfect because for whatever reason it isn't necessary. Think of the past perfect as a device that you can use to make your speaking/writing clearer or more interesting, not as something you're obliged to use. Don't think of the past perfect simply as a way to sequence events in time—there's more to it than that.

Well, I see your point. However, there will be situations where past perfect is necessary. The thing is, how do I tell whether yes or not without those examples? Without knowing how the language works....

 

[Barque]

The thing is, how do I tell whether yes or not without those examples? Without knowing how the language works....

This might sound harsh but there's no shortcut. You learn by practice and by getting used to the language. You can't learn it till you learn how the language works.

 

[jutfrank]

Well, I see your point. However, there will be situations where past perfect is necessary.

Could you give me one or two examples?

 

[Dominik92]

Sure....

1) ...(obstacles)... And when we finally got to the weekend house late at night, we found out that we'd forgotten the keys! (past simple would sound redneckish, no?)
2) I came into the room. I had met some of the people. (past simple "I met" would mean something very different, wouldn't it?)

 

[Barque]

Sentence 1 sounds fine except that I'd drop "out".

What do you mean by "redneckish"? It doesn't mean what you seem to think it means.

Sentence 2 - Yes, "had met" and "met" would mean different things.

 

[jutfrank]

And when we finally got to the weekend house late at night, we found out that we'd forgotten the keys!

This is a very good example of the ideal use of the past perfect. It works beautifully to express a key piece of background information while telling an anecdote. If you wrote this sentence yourself, well done.

I came into the room. I had met some of the people. (past simple "I met" would mean something very different, wouldn't it?)

Yes, it would. The past perfect is used precisely because of that. In this context, meaning depends on clear sequencing of events. In both sentences, there are very good reasons for a perfect aspect—as a narrative device, and as an event sequencer.

 

[jutfrank]

In my opinion, the main thing to understand is that when you use a past perfect clause in conjunction with a past simple clause, you create something. You create a meaning relation between the clauses. That means they're 'tied together' and only make full and proper sense in context with each other.

I suddenly remembered what you'd said.

The second clause has a meaning relation to the first. That means that whatever you said has a relevance of some kind to the moment of remembering, and the surrounding situation.

I suddenly remembered what you said.

This doesn't have the same relevance of events. There are two sequenced events expressed by two clauses, yes, but the speaker doesn't need or want to make a significant connection between them.