If he had not been there, the phone would not have been answered by anyone

[lagoo]

Hi,

Is his answer 2 wrong？
See the link https://www.quora.com/Grammar-When-does-one-use-if-he-was-not-vs-if-he-were-not-vs-if-he-is-not
I think the past subjunctive sentence would be :"If he had not been there, the phone would not have been answered by anyone."


Regarding his answer 1, is it identical as answer 2?

 

[Matthew Wai]

'Had not been' is not the past subjunctive. It refers to the past.
'Were not' is the past subjunctive. It refers to the present.

 

[kadioguy]

I think the past subjunctive sentence would be :"If he had not been there, the phone would not have been answered by anyone."

I think the past subjunctive sentence means the unreal conditional sentence.
So in your case it should be the following:

If he were not there, the phone would not be answered by anyone.

 

[kadioguy]

a. If he were not there (now or in the future), the phone would not be answered ... (now or in the future)
b. If he were not there (now), the phone would not have been answered ... (in the past)
c. If he had not been there ( in the past), the phone would not have been answered ... (in the past)

So you mean we can mix them. :up:

Do the past subjunctive sentence and the unreal conditional sentence mean the same?

 

[Matthew Wai]

Is his answer 2 wrong？

I consider #2 a mixed conditional because the if-clause and the main clause refer to the present and the past respectively.

 

[Matthew Wai]

Does the past subjunctive sentence and the unreal conditional sentence mean the same?

The past subjunctive is used in the second conditional, which refers to an unreal situation.

 

[kadioguy]

The past subjunctive is used in the second conditional, which refers to an unreal situation.

I just found this:

Practical English Usage 567

1. What is the subjunctive?
Some languages have special verb forms called 'subjunctive', which are used especially to talk about 'unreal' situations: things which are possible, desirable or imaginary. Older English had subjunctives, but in modern English they have mostly been replaced by uses of should, would and other modal verbs, by special uses of past tenses (see 426), and by ordinary verb forms. English only has a few subjunctive forms left: third-person singular present verbs without -(e)s, (e.g. she see, he have) and special forms of be (e.g. I be, he were). Except for I/he/she/it were after if, they are not very common.

...

3. be

Be has special subjunctive forms: I be, you be etc.

It is important that Helen be present when we sign the papers.
The Director asked that he be allowed to advertise for more staff.

I were and he/she/it were, used for example after if (see 258.4) and wish (see 630) in a formal style, are also subjunctives.

If I were you I should stop smoking.
I wish it were Saturday.
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After reading these, I would think the past subjunctive and the second conditional are almost the same.

 

[Matthew Wai]

the past subjunctive and the second conditional are almost the same.

'Were' is the past subjunctive in 'I wish I were rich', which is not a conditional sentence.

 

[kadioguy]

'Were' is the past subjunctive in 'I wish I were rich', which is not a conditional sentence.

I think 'I wish I were rich' is a unreal conditional sentence.

 

[Matthew Wai]

I think 'I wish I were rich' is a unreal conditional sentence.

I can't see a conditional clause there. Can you?

 

[kadioguy]

I can't see a conditional clause there. Can you?

Yes, you are right. I misunderstood both of them.

Now I know the following:

1. a conditional sentence means if-clause+main clause.
2. a subjunctive form means expressing an action or state which is hypothetical or anticipated rather than actual, including wishes and commands.

If John were here, he would know what to do.
If this be liberty, then give me death!
I wish that I were there.
I want that he go.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/subjunctive_mood#English

 

[Matthew Wai]

'If' is absent from the following:

1. Were I rich, I would buy a helicopter.
2. Should you have any questions, please let me know.

 

[Matthew Wai]

Regarding his answer 1, is it identical as answer 2?

Some people might use 'was' as the past subjunctive according to the following:

Although some people might say:
'If I was rich, I would build a new house for my family'
Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/learningenglish/radio/specials/1837_aae/page3.shtml