If you told your boyfriend that you were pregnant, he'd run far and fast.

[august190]

Conditionals with multiple clauses and imbedded questions. Which tense to use and when?

Hello,
I'm really confused about conditionals that have several clauses in them. Here's two such sentences:

If you told your boyfriend that you were pregnant, he'd run far and fast.
If you told your boyfriend that you are pregnant, he'd be happy.

The part I'm interested in is the first part of these sentences. The idea that I'm getting is that their implications are different - the first one implies that the person isn't pregnant (as in, 'be careful with your boyfriend, he's not committed'), while the second implies that they are, indeed, pregnant (as in, 'don't be afraid to tell him'). I've read somewhere that clauses in such sentences are independent - and each one of them takes its own tense (subjunctive or real) depending on whether it is true or not.

If I told my dad that I did it, he'd be mad. (I did it but I'm not telling.)
If he were to think you'd done it before, he'd never date you. (He doesn't and you never did it and that's where the back shifted subjunctive comes from instead of the simple past.)

But then I'm not sure how much that applies to questions (compared to statements). Here are two more examples:

If you just showed up and asked me if I wanted run away, I'd say that I would in a heartbeat.
If you just showed up and asked me if I want to run away, I'd say that I want in a heartbeat.

Even though I can clearly see the difference in the first two examples, I don't know how the same applies to these. Would you say I should use the subjunctive or the present tense here?

I know the scenario of 'him asking her out' is clearly not real but the intent might be and I don't think that the second version changes the meaning here. Does it? How would you interpret them? Is the second just wrong and not how you would expect it to be put?

Here are two more sentences:

If somebody came to my funeral to see if I was really dead, I wouldn't be surprised.
If somebody kicked him to see if he's dead - we'd know for sure.

The thing with these two is that I can see the difference in what they mean (not sure if I'm right though). The first one states that the guy isn't dead and if he was dead and if his funeral was happening - 'somebody making sure if he was dead' wouldn't be an unexpected scenario. But with the second one the question of 'whether' the guy ('he') is dead or not is a real one - it's the solution of kicking him that's hypothetical (nobody is kicking nobody because there are other ways to see if 'he' is sleeping like he's dead or if he's dead dead). But coming back to my previous examples and two extra to spice it up (I asked a few native speakers about them and they don't seem to agree), I don't know if I can spot the difference:

If you just showed up and asked me if I wanted run away, I'd say that I would in a heartbeat.
If you just showed up and asked me if I want to run away, I'd say that I want in a heartbeat.

If you asked me if I was tired, I would tell you that I was.
If you asked me if I'm tired, I would tell you that I am.

For some reason my brain 'malfunctions' when I try to apply the same logic here. Is the second one in the first pair wrong because the question (do you want or not?) is not being asked or is it not wrong because the intent that she wants to express is real and true? What about the second pair - would the simple present imply that 'I'm, in fact, tired' or would it make no difference? Is my approach of breaking down such sentences into components wrong? How would you treat these sentences?

I know my question is long - I'm sorry. But I thought it's be better to explain how I think about such sentences because then it might be easier for you to point out where I go wrong (and where I go really wrong).

 

[Piscean]

If you told your boyfriend that you were pregnant, he'd run far and fast.
If you told your boyfriend that you are pregnant, he'd be happy.

That's far too many questions for one post. I'll look at just those two.

the first one implies that the person isn't pregnant

Not necessarily.

while the second implies that they are, indeed, pregnant

Not necessarily.

The hypothetical part is 'If you told your boyfriend'. You can use 'are' or 'were' in the second clause with no difference in meaning - backshifting is optional.

 

[august190]

That's far too many questions for one post. I'll look at just those two.

Not necessarily.

Not necessarily.

The hypothetical part is 'If you told your boyfriend'. You can use 'are' or 'were' in the second clause with no difference in meaning - backshifting is optional.

Got it, thanks. Could the preference be a regional difference? The reason why I went into this rabbit hole in the first place was because there are posts and questions (some of them I've asked myself) where people don't agree that both work and explain their reasoning behind it and when to use each. I don't know if I can post links but this is just two of them that I could quickly find:

If you told me you are/were pregnant

Hello. I am wondering about this scenario. If you told me you were/are pregnant, I would climb onto a roof and scream and say how happy I was and that I was going to be an aunt after all.“ Are all the past tenses correct, since the person isn’t really telling me.

forum.wordreference.com

Especially post #8 (the last one)

"If you asked me, I would apologize and tell you I {am / was} busy"

I was teaching ESL class and came across a sentence "If you asked me, I would apologize and tell you I was too busy". A student in the class asked the reason why "I was too busy" is used instead of...

ell.stackexchange.com

They don't directly apply to all of my examples so I might be misinterpreting them, but I'm just wondering if you would agree with them.

 

[Piscean]

If you want me to respond to points, please make them in this thread.

 

[august190]

If you want m to respond to points, please make them in this thread.

Oh, sorry. I hope the people who wrote these don't mind me quoting them. So this is what a native speaker wrote:

"There's a difference:
"If I told you that I still am in love with you, ...": I am in fact still in love with you.
"If you told me that you are pregnant, ...": I can't know whether you are in fact pregnant, so "you are pregnant" doesn't work; the matter is hypothetical, hence the use of "you were pregnant".

"Verbforms in a conditional like this, employing what we used to call "reported" speech, without direct quotation, will be shaped by the context—specifically, the verbform in the clause representing the speech will depend on whether the hypothetical "scopes" over the subordinate clause."

A: What would you say if I asked you to have dinner tonight?
B: I would apologize and say that I'm too busy—I have papers to grade. (I'm too busy is the right version because you do know about your plans for today).

Compared to:

C: You don't know how to say No. If you were really really busy and I asked you to dinner, you'd go, even if it meant staying up all night grading papers.
B: That's not true. I would apologize and say I was too busy. (It is about some unknowable future and not today, so the right form would be 'I was too busy').


The whole big post question that I wrote yesterday is how I understand what these people suggest. I was taught to do it this way in school at some point, but the more I listen, speak, read - the more I see that this is not always the case. That's why I got (and still am) a little bit confused.

Do you think it's correct what they say? If yes, how is my situation different?

 

[Piscean]

"If I told you that I still am in love with you, ...": I am in fact still in love with you.

All we know for a fact is that the speaker is telling someone they are still in love with them.

"If you told me that you are pregnant, ...": I can't know whether you are in fact pregnant, so "you are pregnant" doesn't work; the matter is hypothetical, hence the use of "you were pregnant"..

"You are pregnant" does work. "If you told me" has already established that we are talking hypothetically. There is no need to double down on this by bacfksifting the reported verb to 'were'. Many people will backshift, but that does not mean that it's obligatory.

A: What would you say if I asked you to have dinner tonight?
B: I would apologize and say that I'm too busy—I have papers to grade. (I'm too busy is the right version because you do know about your plans for today)..

Backshifting to 'were' and 'had' is also possible.

C: You don't know how to say No. If you were really really busy and I asked you to dinner, you'd go, even if it meant staying up all night grading papers.
B: That's not true. I would apologize and say I was too busy. (It is about some unknowable future and not today, so the right form would be 'I was too busy')..

Once gain, not-backshifted 'am' is possible.

 

[Piscean]

I think that part of the problems, august, is that you are taking general observations on the way native speakers generally backshift as firm rules.

 

[august190]

I think that part of the problems, august, is that you are taking general observations on the way native speakers generally backshift as firm rules.

Yep, that's it. Different people seem to prefer to do it differently - but when a native speaker tells me that this is how they do it I immediately write it down as a rule. That's why I get worked up every time natives don't agree (how could that be!) and write 'essays' on forums trying to figure it out. Thanks a lot, Piscean! I really, really appreciate it. Good to have it all cleared up in one post.

Big thanks!