... meet me at the Bar Bogart, not the Cosmo Bar

[kadioguy]

(Quoted from Sally's Phone, a reader from the Oxford Bookworms Library)

Ring ring! It is Andrew again.
'Hi, Sally. Look, meet me at the Bar Bogart, not the Cosmo Bar – OK? The Bar Bogart is nearer. Bye.'
-----

The Bar is before Bogart; however, the Bar is after Cosmo. Could you tell me why?

 

[GoesStation]

The name of the establishment is apparently the Bar Bogart. This is nonstandard word order, but you'll see it occasionally.

 

[Rover_KE]

If you own a bar, restaurant, shop, hotel etc, you can call it whatever you want, and owe nobody an explanation of the reasons for your choice.

 

[kadioguy]

The name of the establishment is apparently the Bar Bogart. This is nonstandard word order, but you'll see it occasionally.

The Bar Bogart and the Cosmo Bar are both their name. The former is in nonstandard word order, whereas the latter is in standard order. Do I understand it correctly?

PS -
a. This is nonstandard word order.
b. This is in nonstandard word order.

Do they both work? (You used (a), but I only found the use of (b) in dictionaries.)

 

[GoesStation]

The Bar Bogart and the Cosmo Bar are both their name. The former is in nonstandard word order, whereas the latter is in standard order. Do I understand it correctly?

Yes.

 

[GoesStation]

a. This is nonstandard word order.
b. This is in nonstandard word order.

Do they both work? (You used (a), but I only found the use of (b) in dictionaries.)

A means "This (the word order of the phrase I just mentioned) is nonstandard." That's what I intended to say. B means "The word order in this phrase is nonstandard." I find that a bit clumsy, but it means essentially the same thing.

 

[TheParser]

Could you tell me why?

NOT A TEACHER

1. No, I can't. But here is something from four respected grammarians: "A post-positive adjective [an adjective that comes after a noun] … can usually [my emphasis] be regarded as a reduced relative clause." (Quirk, et al., A Comprehensive Grammar of the English Language (1985), page 418.)

2. For the sake of argument, let's say that a Mr. Bogart owns the bar. Which title do you think sounds more exotic: "Bogart's Bar" or "Bar [that is owned by Mr.] Bogart"?

3. On American television, there's a program about people who have bizarre (strange) bodies. Can you guess what the name of the program is? It's "Body Bizarre."

 

[kadioguy]

a. This is nonstandard word order.
b. This is in nonstandard word order.

Do they both work? (You used (a), but I only found the use of (b) in dictionaries.)

A means "This (the word order of the phrase I just mentioned) is nonstandard." That's what I intended to say. B means "The word order in this phrase is nonstandard." I find that a bit clumsy, but it means essentially the same thing.

I thought B means "This (name) is in nonstandard word order." That's why I chose style B in my post (#4). Does this thought work?

This structure is similar to this example:

My files are in alphabetical order.

 

[bubbha]

"Bar Bogart" is not standard English word order, but I believe it is standard French word order. Perhaps the owner of the bar gave it that name in order to give it a French feel, for an air of elegance or style.

 

[GoesStation]

"Bar Bogart" is not standard English word order, but I believe it is standard French word order. Perhaps the owner of the bar gave it that name in order to give it a French feel, for an air of elegance or style.

A bar owner in Paris returned the compliment:

 

[kadioguy]

I thought B means "This (name) is in nonstandard word order." That's why I chose style B in my post (#4). Does this thought work?

This structure is similar to this example:

My files are in alphabetical order.

This (the word order) is nonstandard word order.

This (the name) is in nonstandard word order.

Do I understand it correctly?

 

[kadioguy]

This (the word order) is nonstandard word order.

This (the name) is in nonstandard word order.

Do I understand it correctly?

Could members help me with that? Am I right in thinking this? :-?

 

[GoesStation]

This (the word order) is nonstandard word order.

This (the name) is in nonstandard word order.

Do I understand it correctly?

Could members help me with that? Am I right in thinking this? :-?

I suppose so. I don't think it matters, though. You understood what I was saying.

 

[jutfrank]

This (the word order) is nonstandard word order.

This (the name) is in nonstandard word order.

Do I understand it correctly?

That's exactly right.

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

"Bar Bogart" is not standard English word order, but I believe it is standard French word order. Perhaps the owner of the bar gave it that name in order to give it a French feel, for an air of elegance or style.

Yes, it's Frenchification.

There are a few English phrases where the adjective comes after the noun. Examples:

- lion rampant
- meet cute
- battle royal

Often, the phrase comes from French or is trying (either for humor or glamor) to sound sophisticated - which, to many native English speakers, French is.

Bar Bogart is probably named for for the American actor Humphrey Bogart, who often played sophisticated or sinister roles. This is from Casablanca: