Michael sees a stranger putting out his hand with his thumb raised.

Status
Not open for further replies.

diamondcutter

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2014
Member Type
English Teacher
Native Language
Chinese
Home Country
China
Current Location
China
(Wang Junfeng and his parents are going to the USA. Michael and Kangkang are going to see them off. Now they are on their way to the airport.)
Wang Junfeng: I can’t believe that I’m flying to Disneyland. I’m so excited.
Kangkang: Of course you are.
(Michael sees a stranger putting out his hand with his thumb raised.)
Michael: Stop, please!
Driver: What’s up?
Michael: The stranger is asking for a ride. Look at his gesture!
...
Source: An English textbook for junior high school students in China, by Popular Science Press

I have three questions.

1.Is it better to say “Michael and Kangkang are seeing them off” instead of “Michael and Kangkang are going to see them off” because they are already doing that?

2.According to common sense when Michael sees the person, he/she has already reached out his/her hand, so I think it is more appropriate to say “Michael sees a stranger holding his hand with his thumb raised” instead of “Michael sees a stranger putting out his hand with his thumb raised”. Do you think so?

3.I think it’s more common to state what the stranger is, for example, a man, a woman, a boy or a girl than just to say “a stranger”. Do you agree?
 

Barque

Banned
Joined
Nov 3, 2022
Member Type
Interested in Language
Native Language
English
Home Country
India
Current Location
Singapore
1.Is it better to say “Michael and Kangkang are seeing them off” instead of “Michael and Kangkang are going to see them off” because they are already doing that?
It's fine. I understood "going to" literally, as meaning "on their way" and not "intend to".
2.According to common sense when Michael sees the person, he/she has already reached out his/her hand, so I think it is more appropriate to say “Michael sees a stranger holding his hand with his thumb raised” instead of “Michael sees a stranger putting out his hand with his thumb raised”. Do you think so?
You can say "putting it out" even if the person has completed the action. But I don't think it's the best choice here and neither is your alternative.

Michael sees a man trying to thumb a ride.

And if you want to explain what exactly the man was doing:
Michael sees a man extending his arm with his thumb raised.
Michael sees a man waving at them with his thumb raised.


3.I think it’s more common to state what the stranger is, for example, a man, a woman, a boy or a girl than just to say “a stranger”. Do you agree?
Yes.
 

emsr2d2

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jul 28, 2009
Member Type
English Teacher
Native Language
British English
Home Country
UK
Current Location
UK
You need to remember that these dialogues in textbooks are written to exemplify certain grammar and vocabulary points, usually those that have been worked on in that chapter of the book. They're frequently very unnatural and that is certainly the case here. Here's what would actually happen, if a native speaker wrote or was involved in that scenario:

Wang Junfeng and his parents are going to America on holiday. Michael and Kangkang are going to the airport with them to see them off. They're all together in a car.

Wang: I'm going to Disneyland. Can't believe it! I'm so excited!
Kangkang: Course you are.
(Michael spots a hitchhiker.)
Michael: Stop!
Driver: Why?
Michael: To pick up that hitchhiker!


The most unnatural part of the original dialogue is, by far, "The stranger is asking for a ride. Look at his gesture!"
 

diamondcutter

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2014
Member Type
English Teacher
Native Language
Chinese
Home Country
China
Current Location
China
In #2, Barque says, "You can say "putting it out" even if the person has completed the action." Could you give another similar example?
 

jutfrank

VIP Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2014
Member Type
English Teacher
Native Language
English
Home Country
England
Current Location
England
I don't really agree that putting your hand out is the same as holding your hand out. I agree with you, diamondcutter, that the verb should be 'holding'.
 

Tarheel

VIP Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2014
Member Type
Interested in Language
Native Language
American English
Home Country
United States
Current Location
United States
In #2, Barque says, "You can say "putting it out" even if the person has completed the action." Could you give another similar example?
I've been working on that. However, it might be easier if there was one example to begin with.
😊
 
Last edited:

5jj

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 14, 2010
Member Type
English Teacher
Native Language
British English
Home Country
Czech Republic
Current Location
Czech Republic
In #2, Barque says, "You can say "putting it out" even if the person has completed the action." Could you give another similar example?
Actually, Barque said "You can say "putting it out" even if the person has completed the action. But I don't think it's the best choice here and neither is your alternative".
 

Barque

Banned
Joined
Nov 3, 2022
Member Type
Interested in Language
Native Language
English
Home Country
India
Current Location
Singapore
In #2, Barque says, "You can say "putting it out" even if the person has completed the action." Could you give another similar example?
I was referring more to the principle than that specific example.

For example you might have seen a performance by a musician, and you might say "I've seen you performing" even if you've watched the whole performance. I was saying that the "...ing" form is sometimes possible even if the person has completed the action. Does that make sense?

Don't worry about it if it doesn't.
 

jutfrank

VIP Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2014
Member Type
English Teacher
Native Language
English
Home Country
England
Current Location
England
I think diamondcutter is asking about the meaning of the word put. Does it necessarily have a sense of movement?
 

Barque

Banned
Joined
Nov 3, 2022
Member Type
Interested in Language
Native Language
English
Home Country
India
Current Location
Singapore
"I saw you putting the money in your pocket."

This would usually mean "I saw you put the money in your pocket".

I think "put" always signifies a movement. Or haven't I understood you correctly?
 

diamondcutter

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2014
Member Type
English Teacher
Native Language
Chinese
Home Country
China
Current Location
China
Yes, Jutfrank is right. I actually asked about the meaning of the word "put".
 

svetlana14

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2013
Member Type
Interested in Language
Native Language
Ukrainian
Home Country
Ukraine
Current Location
Ukraine
You need to remember that these dialogues in textbooks are written to exemplify certain grammar and vocabulary points, usually those that have been worked on in that chapter of the book. They're frequently very unnatural and that is certainly the case here. Here's what would actually happen, if a native speaker wrote or was involved in that scenario:

Wang Junfeng and his parents are going to America on holiday. Michael and Kangkang are going to the airport with them to see them off. They're all together in a car.

Wang: I'm going to Disneyland. Can't believe it! I'm so excited!
Kangkang: Course you are.
(Michael spots a hitchhiker.)
Michael: Stop!
Driver: Why?
Michael: To pick up that hitchhiker!


The most unnatural part of the original dialogue is, by far, "The stranger is asking for a ride. Look at his gesture!"
Why one coud find more natural dialogues and conversation? What would you recommend in addition to watching movies?
 

jutfrank

VIP Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2014
Member Type
English Teacher
Native Language
English
Home Country
England
Current Location
England
Why one coud find more natural dialogues and conversation? What would you recommend in addition to watching movies?

Movies are often not the best examples of natural speech, purely because the dialogue is scripted, in the same way as the English textbook quoted in the original post. What you're looking for is what we call authentic texts. The most authentic texts (in my opinion) are those where the speech comes directly from a native speaker and is spontaneous and unplanned. Although they can be excellent examples of natural language use, movies, where the aim is usually to imitate spontaneous speech, are not 'authentic' in the way I'm describing.
 
Last edited:

probus

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jan 7, 2011
Member Type
Retired English Teacher
Native Language
English
Home Country
Canada
Current Location
Canada
In AmE we are very likely to prefer "stick your thumb out". I'd find both "hold" and "put" a little unnatural in the context of hitch-hiking.
 

emsr2d2

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jul 28, 2009
Member Type
English Teacher
Native Language
British English
Home Country
UK
Current Location
UK
Why one could find more natural dialogues and conversation?
I don't understand this question at all, even with the typo correction and even if the words were in the right order for a question ("could one" instead of "one could").
 

svetlana14

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2013
Member Type
Interested in Language
Native Language
Ukrainian
Home Country
Ukraine
Current Location
Ukraine
Why one coud find more natural dialogues and conversation? What would you recommend in addition to watching movies?
Sorry - Where one could find more natural dialogues and conversations?
 

emsr2d2

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jul 28, 2009
Member Type
English Teacher
Native Language
British English
Home Country
UK
Current Location
UK
Sorry. Where could one could find more natural dialogues and conversations?
It's more natural to ask "Where can I find ...". Try listening to English-speaking radio stations - not ones that play radio dramas etc, but talk radio. News reports, "magazine" programmes, sports programmes, just about anything in which the DJ (and any members of the public who phone in) speak natural English. Also, if you get the opportunity (I'm aware of the potential difficulty given your current location), try to find a local language exchange group or simply a local group to improve your English. I realise you might struggle to find native speakers still living in Ukraine at the moment. There are probably online (spoken) chat groups you can join too. I don't know any but someone else might.
 

utsavviradiya

Junior Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2022
Member Type
Student or Learner
Native Language
Gujarati
Home Country
India
Current Location
India
Actually, Barque said "You can say "putting it out" even if the person has completed the action. But I don't think it's the best choice here and neither is your alternative".
I noticed that you used double quotations within double quotations. I was taught in school that we must use single quotations within double quotations so as to avoid confusion about which quotation where starts and ends. I think I was taught wrong. What do you think, 5jj?
 

5jj

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 14, 2010
Member Type
English Teacher
Native Language
British English
Home Country
Czech Republic
Current Location
Czech Republic
You were taught the correct system. I was not concentrating.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top