Mudchute Farm vs. Mudchute farm

[ghoul]

Mudchute Farm vs. Mudchute farm
There's a place called Mudchute Farm in the Isle of Dogs and this sentence contains the correct capitalisation. What if I just wrote "Mudchute farm". Would that have been a mistake?

(I feel like it's sometimes not clear to me which parts of a place are parts of it and which aren't. And I tend to just write the parts that contain usually uncapitalized words uncapitalized. But perhaps I should change that. I mean now that I'm thinking about it, eg in this context it seems fairly obvious that "farm" relates to "Mudchute". So, I don't think it would be an issue for me to just make a habit of capitalizing both in similar cases.)

 

[emsr2d2]

Yes, it would be a mistake. If its official name is "Mudchute Farm", you must capitalise both words. If the whole place is simply called "Mudchute", your opening sentence would be "There's a farm called Mudchute on the Isle of Dogs ...".
I just Googled "Mudchute Farm Isle of Dogs" and discovered that it's official name is "Mudchute Park and Farm". That's how you must write it.

You can't just capitalise things because you think they might be right. When it comes to names of places, you can always check online by simply Googling the name and you will find it capitalised correctly.

 

[ghoul]

Yes, it would be a mistake. If its official name is "Mudchute Farm", you must capitalise both words. If the whole place is simply called "Mudchute", your opening sentence would be "There's a farm called Mudchute on the Isle of Dogs ...".
I just Googled "Mudchute Farm Isle of Dogs" and discovered that it's official name is "Mudchute Park and Farm". That's how you must write it.

You can't just capitalise things because you think they might be right. When it comes to names of places, you can always check online by simply Googling the name and you will find it capitalised correctly.

Generally speaking, your last statement makes sense to me. On the other hand, I bet if you as an experienced English speaker hear a full sentence with a place's name in it you always know how to capitalize it, don't you?

 

[emsr2d2]

Generally speaking, your last statement makes sense to me. On the other hand, I bet if you as an experienced English speaker hear a full sentence with a place's name in it you always know how to capitalize it, don't you?

Generally, I'd say yes. That's because with things like "I went to Mudchute Farm", the word "farm" would be in the position it's in only if it's part of the official name. Otherwise, as I said, it would be "I went to a farm called Mudchute".

 

[ghoul]

Generally, I'd say yes. That's because with things like "I went to Mudchute Farm", the word "farm" would be in the position it's in only if it's part of the official name. Otherwise, as I said, it would be "I went to a farm called Mudchute".

Out of curiosity, does a tricky exception come to your mind?

 

[ghoul]

What confuses me a bit is "the" not being capitalized with:

• names of rivers, oceans and seas: the Nile, the Pacific
• points on the globe: the Equator, the North Pole
• geographical areas: the Middle East, the West
• deserts, forests, gulfs, and peninsulas: the Sahara, the Persian Gulf, the Black Forest, the Iberian Peninsula
• some countries: the Netherlands, the Dominican Republic, the Philippines, the United States
• some mountains: the Andes or the Rockies or unusual names like the Matterhorn
• island chains like the Aleutians, the Hebrides, or the Canary Islands

(source)

I feel like I've seen a lot of instances of it having been capitalized. I just don't remember when. I wonder if there's a rule more general than the examples above because it seems a bit hard to learn all of this by heart.

 

[5jj]

it seems a bit hard to learn all of this by heart.

Don't even try. Just don't use a capital letter for the first letter of the definite article unless you have a reason to, for example:

I think that The Third Man is a great film. - First word of a title.
The first novel in the series attracted little attention. - First word in a sentence.

 

[ghoul]

Otherwise, as I said, it would be "I went to a farm called Mudchute".

Makes sense.
I have a follow-up question: What if the farm was just called "Mudchute" and I wanted to use a slightly shorter sentence than the one you mentioned? Couldn't I just say "I went to Mudchute farm", then?

 

[Tarheel]

What you say always depends on who you're talking to. That's the context that's relevant here. Does the person you're talking to know what you're referring to or is some explanation required?

 

[5jj]

Captalisation is irrelevant when you are talking.

 

[emsr2d2]

Makes sense.
I have a follow-up question: What if the farm was just called "Mudchute" and I wanted to use a slightly shorter sentence than the one you mentioned? Couldn't I just say "I went to Mudchute farm", then?

If you're saying it, you can say those words and the listener will assume that, when written, "Farm" is capitalised because it sounds like it's part of the official name. (As 5jj just pointed out, capitalisation is irrelevant when speaking.)
If you're writing it, then I say no. Either write "I went to Mudchute Park and Farm" or just write "I went to Mudchute" and wait for the other person to ask you what that is.

 

[Tarheel]

Captalisation is irrelevant when you are talking.

I'm not sure what that means. If I'm talking about a conversation I had with somebody on the Internet (Facebook, for example), about 99% of the time I'm doing it like this.

 

[emsr2d2]

When it comes to capitalisation, everyone needs to be very clear about whether they're referring to spoken English or written English. In the case of spoken English, it's irrelevant.
If you're having an online conversation (typing, not a phone call made over the net), capitalisation is relevant and important.

 

[Tarheel]

I don't need such an explanation.

 

[ghoul]

If you're saying it, you can say those words and the listener will assume that, when written, "Farm" is capitalised because it sounds like it's part of the official name. (As 5jj just pointed out, capitalisation is irrelevant when speaking.)
If you're writing it, then I say no. Either write "I went to Mudchute Park and Farm" or just write "I went to Mudchute" and wait for the other person to ask you what that is.

I assume "I went to Mudchute, a farm" would also be a good, short way to write this.
What about the following sentences though? Are they correct?
"I went to Mudchute (farm)."
"I went to Mudchute (a farm)."

By the way, I'm aware you called it "Mudchute Park and Farm". It's just that in Greenline A1 and on Wikipedia they call it Mudchute Farm, so it looks like both are correct.

 

[ghoul]

When it comes to capitalisation, everyone needs to be very clear about whether they're referring to spoken English or written English. In the case of spoken English, it's irrelevant.

Why though? Correct me if I'm wrong but my reasoning is if you use the word "say" it can mean either "speak" or "state" (without clearly stating if by means of voice or text), and since we've been discussing capitalization it's obvious that writing was meant.