[Grammar] relative pronoun which - We passed a giant toadstool in the forest, under which fairi

[HeartShape]

Hi,

I have the following sentence: "We passed a giant toadstool in the forest, under which fairies were sitting."

1. In the above sentence can you help identify the word "which" is referencing?
(Not understanding this grammar function properly means I misinterpret the meaning of the sentence sometimes).

My understanding is that "which" usually reference the noun it comes after but sometimes it can be a bit confusing.

I have underlined/colour coded some possibilities below:

a) "We passed a giant toadstool in the forest, under which fairies were sitting."
b) "We passed a giant toadstool in the forest, under which fairies were sitting."
c) "We passed a giant toadstool in the forest, under which fairies were sitting."

Which one is correct understanding out of the above and why?

 

[HeartShape]

A modicum of common sense should tell you the answer. Are fairies more likely to be sitting under a giant toadstool, or under a forest?

I was thinking, this is a fantasy world, and where its fantasy all kinds of things are possible. Take for example, Alice in the Wonderland because anything is possible.

OK. So the answer would be a giant toadstool.

So basically, to identify the noun we have to take the context of the sentence to identify the noun?

How about this sentence: "They had collected the sap from the sugar maple trees, from which maple syrup is manufactured."

a) "They had collected the sap from the sugar maple trees, from which maple syrup is manufactured."
b) "They had collected the sap from the sugar maple trees, from which maple syrup is manufactured."

Is the understanding a or b?

I think sometimes the sentence or the nouns are not immediately obvious, so I was wondering if there a way to identify the correct noun just solely on grammar construction.

 

[HeartShape]

Yes. Ideally, the antecedent of a relative pronoun is the noun most immediately preceding it, but this does not always happen.



That sentence would have been better as "They had collected the sap, from which maple syrup is manufactured, from the sugar maple trees".

Thanks. That concludes my understanding. I thought with just grammar construction alone it would allow the reader to precisely pin point the noun in question but that's not the case demonstrated.

In that second sentence I originally thought the answer would have been "the sap". I guess I'm not familiar with the word "manufactured" being associated with a farming environment. After thinking about it, I guess its sounds reasonable to consider "the sugar maple trees" over "the sap".

 

[HeartShape]

The antecedent of whichis the sap.

Yes. I just looked it up. I was about to correct my response.

The definition here:

"Oil is used in the manufacture of a number of fabrics."

"The sap is used in the manufacture of a number of fabrics."

[STRIKE]"The sugar maple trees are used in the manufacture of a number of fabrics."[/STRIKE]

 

[HeartShape]

You didn't need to look it up. The only possible interpretation of "They had collected the sap, from which maple syrup is manufactured, from the sugar maple trees" is that the maple syrup is manufactured from the sap.

I see what's happened. I thought you were contrasting between the first sentence and the second sentence as a better fit. I didn't realize you were re-arranging the sentence for better clarity. My fault.

Anyway, the focus was on the relative pronoun was side tracked a bit. I think I seem to have answered my own question in all the confusion. :-D

 

[Skrej]

I guess I'm not familiar with the word "manufactured" being associated with a farming environment.

Although it doesn't relate to the antecedent question, I too, find the use of 'manufactured' somewhat odd in regards to a natural product like maple syrup. The process is actually fairly simple and uncomplicated, so 'manufactured' sounds a bit odd to my ear.

 

[Tdol]

I was thinking, this is a fantasy world, and where its fantasy all kinds of things are possible. Take for example, Alice in the Wonderland because anything is possible.

OK. So the answer would be a giant toadstool.

Always take the more obvious/sensible/logical meaning- that's what the rest of us do. We don't scurry around trying to find potentially alternative meanings when we think that fairies hang around toadstools. Just because something is theoretically ambiguous, it doesn't mean that any listener finds it so. To be honest, with your second question, the sap comes from the same trees where we get the oil. You can't get the sap without the trees, and you can't get the syrup without the sap. It's not a life-changing distinction.

 

[HeartShape]

Always take the more obvious/sensible/logical meaning- that's what the rest of us do. We don't scurry around trying to find potentially alternative meanings when we think that fairies hang around toadstools. Just because something is theoretically ambiguous, it doesn't mean that any listener finds it so. To be honest, with your second question, the sap comes from the same trees where we get the oil. You can't get the sap without the trees, and you can't get the syrup without the sap. It's not a life-changing distinction.

Yes, I thought about that, which is why I quickly answered it.

Regarding the sap, I did think about it as exactly as how you wrote it which is how I came about with the answer. I then looked up the definition of manfacturing for reassurance.

But if a reader fails to identify and understand the grammar it will pose a huge challenge to learning like it did to me in the past. So for me you could say it was life-changing moment.

Now that I do understand this grammar, it feels amazing.

My grammar confidence is at an all time high. I feel like writing something great, but not yet because I still have a lot to read and so a lot of learning to do.

 

[HeartShape]

Although it doesn't relate to the antecedent question, I too, find the use of 'manufactured' somewhat odd in regards to a natural product like maple syrup. The process is actually fairly simple and uncomplicated, so 'manufactured' sounds a bit odd to my ear.

Yes. It sounds unnatural and synthetic. But I think it we treat the word sap as a raw material it seems to sound a bit better, because manufacturer processes raw materials in order to produce its products.

 

[HeartShape]

Hi,

Here's another possible explanation/argument.

The noun could be made from "the sugar maple trees".

Here's why:

"The syrup could be manufactured from the sugar maple trees in order extract the sap into a collection to make the syrup". Using the word manufacturing does sound like a complex process. Is this explanation plausible?

 

[Tdol]

I feel like writing something great, but not yet because I still have a lot to read and so a lot of learning to do.

I hope that goes well when the time is right. :up:

 

[emsr2d2]

I feel like writing something great, but not yet because I still have a lot to read and so a lot of learning to do.

Be patient. One of my friends has just published her first novel - at the age of 53. She's been writing (generally, not this novel!) since the age of six.