[Grammar] She has learnt/has been learning to drive for two months.

[kadioguy]

5.
(A) I have worked in London for 20 years. I like my job.

(B) I have been working in London for 20 years. I like my job.

Piscean:
With verbs denoting a state or action that normally has some considerable duration, such as live and work, there is usually little significant difference in meaning between continuous and non-continuous forms like 5A and 5B.

https://www.usingenglish.com/forum/threads/278232-Differences-between-Present-Perfect-and-Present-Perfect-Continuous?p=1580805#post1580805

7.
(A) She has learnt to drive for two months but she still can’t drive well.

(B) She has been learning to drive for two months but she still can’t drive well.

emsr2d2:
Only the continuous works there.

https://www.usingenglish.com/forum/threads/278343-About-Present-Perfect-Tense

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Why does only (7b) work, while (5a) and (5b) both work?

 

[GoesStation]

Learning to drive is an activity with a limited duration: you work on it for a while, and eventually know how. Compare this with studying auto mechanics, for example. No matter how long you study, there's always more you can learn. The past perfect is possible with this verb in this context.

 

[kadioguy]

Learning to drive is an activity with a limited duration: you work on it for a while, and eventually know how. Compare this with studying auto mechanics, for example. No matter how long you study, there's always more you can learn. The past simple is possible with this verb in this context.

Thank you for the reply, but I still don't know why this sentence doesn't work. :-?

(7a) She has learnt to drive for two months but she still can’t drive well.

 

[SoothingDave]

If she "has learnt" to drive (past tense) then presumably she would drive well.

 

[kadioguy]

If she "has learnt" to drive (past tense) then presumably she would drive well.

Did you mean to say "the present perfect tense"?

 

[SoothingDave]

Yeah. It describes an action that has been completed. That was my point. Thanks.

 

[emsr2d2]

If she "has learnt" to drive (past tense) then presumably she would drive well.

I wish that were true! I spend half my time on the road wondering how other drivers even passed their test!

 

[kadioguy]

I wish that were true! I spend half my time on the road wondering how other drivers even passed their test!

1. ... wondering how other drivers even passed their test!

2. ... wondering how other drivers even passed their tests!

Do (1) and (2) have the same effect? If not, could you tell me about that?

 

[tedmc]

1. ... wondering how other drivers even passed their test!

2. ... wondering how other drivers even passed their tests!

Do (1) and (2) have the same effect? If not, could you tell me about that?

I thing both the singular(a common driving test) and plural (drivers sat for tests at different sittings) are acceptable.

 

[kadioguy]

I think both the singular (a common driving test) and plural (sat for tests at different sittings) are acceptable.

Thank you, tedmc.

What does the "sat" mean?

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I just found the following:

(Practical English Usage 3rd ed.)

530 singular and plural (8): distributive plural

1 people doing the same thing

To talk about several people each doing the same thing, English usually prefers a plural noun for the repeated idea.

Tell the kids to bring raincoats to school tomorrow.
(More natural than Tell the kids to bring a raincoat ... )

​

Plural forms are almost always used in this case if there are possessives.

Tell the children to blow their noses. (NOT ... to blow their nose.)
Six people lost their lives in the accident.

​

Uncountable nouns cannot of course be used in the plural.

They were all anxious to increase their knowledge. (NOT ... their knowledges.)
​

 

[tedmc]

Thank you, tedmc.

What does the "sat" mean?

Sat is the past tense of sit, as in sitting for the driving test.

​

 

[GoesStation]

What does the "sat" mean?

In British and Canadian English the person being subjected to a test or (non-medical) exam is said to be "sitting" it. Americans "take" tests.

 

[GoesStation]

Even in BrE, we don't normally sit a driving test – we take a driving test.

I wondered about that. If I remember right from my time in Canada, you sit a written exam, presumably because you're sitting at a desk during the exam, but you'd use some other verb for a practical test.

 

[emsr2d2]

Well, you also sit down to take the theory part of the current driving test in the UK and we don't use "sit" for that either.

Q: Have you booked your driving test yet?
A: I'm taking the theory test next Friday and, hopefully, the practical two weeks later.

 

[jutfrank]

you sit a written exam, presumably because you're sitting at a desk during the exam, but you'd use some other verb for a practical test.

That's exactly right. Think school/college exams.

 

[kadioguy]

Thank you, four native speakers.
And what do you think about posts #10 and #11?

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Post #9
1. ... wondering how other drivers even passed their test!

2. ... wondering how other drivers even passed their tests!

Do (1) and (2) have the same effect? If not, could you tell me about that?

Post #10
I think both the singular (a common driving test) and plural (drivers sat for tests at different sittings) are acceptable.

Post #11
(Practical English Usage 3rd ed.)

530 singular and plural (8): distributive plural

1 people doing the same thing

To talk about several people each doing the same thing, English usually prefers a plural noun for the repeated idea.

Tell the kids to bring raincoats to school tomorrow.
(More natural than Tell the kids to bring a raincoat ... )

Plural forms are almost always used in this case if there are possessives.

Tell the children to blow their noses. (NOT ... to blow their nose.)
Six people lost their lives in the accident.

 

[jutfrank]

1. ... wondering how other drivers even passed their test!

2. ... wondering how other drivers even passed their tests!

Do (1) and (2) have the same effect? If not, could you tell me about that?

This is basically down to personal usage. I prefer 2. Apparently, emsr2d2 is one of those users who prefers 1.

There's no important difference between the singular and plural forms in this context.

What the singular does that the plural doesn't do is carry the sense of one test per driver. That doesn't necessarily mean that nobody does more than one test, though—it really only really refers to the final one (the one which they passed). Logically, it also allows for the interpretation that all other drivers did one big group test. Obviously, that's a ridiculous interpretation in this context, and it's not what emsr2d2 means.

What the plural does that the singular doesn't do is allow for the interpretation of multiple tests per driver, which is quite possible in reality, but also not what emsr2d2 means, either. However, that's not the reason I would prefer it. The reason I prefer it is that it disallows the ridiculous interpretation I mentioned in the paragraph above.

So in this context, they're two ways of saying the same thing.

 

[kadioguy]

What the singular does that the plural doesn't do is carry the sense of one test per driver. That doesn't necessarily mean that nobody does more than one test, though—it really only really refers to the final one (the one which they passed).

If it refers that, I may still prefer "other drivers ... passed their tests", because I think "one test per driver", so "many drivers many tests", as in

Tell the kids to bring raincoats to school tomorrow.
(More natural than Tell the kids to bring a raincoat ... )

 

[jutfrank]

If it refers that, I may still prefer "other drivers ... passed their tests", because I think "one test per driver", so "many drivers many tests", as in

Tell the kids to bring raincoats to school tomorrow.
(More natural than Tell the kids to bring a raincoat ... )

Yes, me too.

I'm quite suspicious, by the way, about Swan's claim that the plural is "more natural" than the singular. I don't see that that's true, or how he could even know. There are plenty of people who would naturally use the singular there.

 

[tedmc]

As I said earlier, if you want to convey the idea that all drivers take a common test at the same time, it does not make sense to talk about "tests".