the City of New York and New York City

[kadioguy]

a. (the) City of New York
b. New York City

1. Do they mean the same?
2. Are both used?
-----
c. Cleveland
d. (the) City of Cleveland

3. Do they mean the same?
4. Are both used?
5. Why not say something like Cleveland City (as New York City)?
-----
e. London
f. (the) City of London

6. (f) is part of (e). Is that right?

7. So we can see two patterns of "(the) City of XXX":
One: (the) City equals XXX (as (a) and (d)); the other: (the) City is part of XXX (as (f)). Do I understand this correctly?

 

[GoesStation]

The name of the most populous American city is "New York". It's commonly known as "New York City" to distinguish it from the state of New York. The name of Cleveland is officially the City of Cleveland. We don't use this wordy name because "Cleveland" is unambiguous if the context has been established. If not, we call it "Cleveland, Ohio" or, if that's not clear enough, "Cleveland, Ohio, USA". Never call it "Cleveland, USA", which doesn't tell us which of the 29 US cities with that name you're talking about.

We don't call it "Cleveland City" because (unlike New York) it's not located in a state with the same name.

 

[kadioguy]

The name of the most populous American city is "New York". It's commonly known as "New York City" to distinguish it from the state of New York. [...]

I also saw the name "the City of New York" at https://www1.nyc.gov/

 

[SoothingDave]

"The City of ..." would generally be understood to mean the government. And look, it's a .gov website.

There are cities with "City" in the official name. Like the City of Kansas City.

https://www.kcmo.gov/

New York is not one of them. That does not prevent people from calling it NYC, for purposes of not being ambiguous.

 

[jutfrank]

To confuse things somewhat, I'll point out that the City of London and London are two quite separate entities.

 

[SoothingDave]

I was going to comment that London is an entirely different thing.

 

[probus]

When I lived in London fifty years ago I never heard anyone say City of London. They just called it the City. It is of course the financial heart of the U.K., and at one time of the world.

 

[Rover_KE]

And to confuse things even further, in songs, poetry and folklore the place is often affectionately known by its inhabitants as London Town.

 

[kadioguy]

[...]
There are cities with "City" in the official name. Like the City of Kansas City.
[...]
New York is not one of them. That does not prevent people from calling it NYC, for purposes of not being ambiguous.

I mean no offence, but according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City, it says:

New York City (NYC), often simply called New York, is the most populous city in the United States.

So maybe "New York City" is its official name.

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

To confuse things somewhat, I'll point out that the City of London and London are two quite separate entities.

As are the City of Los Angeles and what's usually referred to as Los Angeles or LA, the seemingly endless county that includes the much smaller city.

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

And to confuse things even further, in songs, poetry and folklore the place is often affectionately known by its inhabitants as London Town.

As in:

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

I mean no offence, but according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City, it says:

New York City (NYC), often simply called New York, is the most populous city in the United States.

So maybe "New York City" is its official name.

Yes. The city's name is New York City. And here's some confusing trivia:

New York City is made up of five boroughs. It's also made up of five counties that are identical to the boroughs. But some of the names are different:

- The Borough of Manhattan is New York County.
- The Borough of the Bronx is Bronx County. (Notice that it's the Bronx.)
- The Borough of Staten Island is Richmond County.
- The Borough of Queens is Queens County.
- The Borough of Brooklyn is Kings County.

Now you know!

 

[kadioguy]

"The City of ..." would generally be understood to mean the government. And look, it's a .gov website. [...]

I also saw "City of Kansas City" at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas_City,_Missouri

Maybe Kansas City and City of Kansas City mean the same thing here. :-?

 

[GoesStation]

As are the City of Los Angeles and what's usually referred to as Los Angeles or LA, the seemingly endless county that includes the much smaller city.

The city of Los Angeles is huge both in area and in population. As with other sprawling American cities, its name can be used to encompass the much larger metropolitan area locally known as the Southland which includes parts or the entirety of Ventura, Los Angeles, Riverside, San Bernardino and Orange Counties.

"Los Angeles" alone is never used to refer to the county, which is always called "Los Angeles County" or "LA County".

I just got back from there on Saturday. As it happens, I was staying in a house in Los Angeles whose mailing address, along with the others in the neighborhood, is in the city of Santa Monica.

 

[Tdol]

And to confuse things even further, in songs, poetry and folklore the place is often affectionately known by its inhabitants as London Town.

And it is Landan to many speakers.

 

[kadioguy]

[...]
I just got back from there on Saturday. As it happens, I was staying in a house in Los Angeles whose mailing address, along with the others in the neighborhood, is in the city of Santa Monica.

The houses are in the city of Los Angeles, but their mailing addresses are in the city of Santa Monica. How could that be? Does that mean that the owners of the houses live in another city (i.e., they live in the city of Santa Monica)?

 

[GoesStation]

The houses are in the city of Los Angeles, but their mailing addresses are in the city of Santa Monica. How could that be? Does that mean that the owners of the houses live in another city (i.e., they live in the city of Santa Monica)?

No. The houses are in a Los Angeles neighborhood that's adjacent to Santa Monica. Postal service is provided by the Santa Monica post office. This was established nearly a hundred years ago when the neighborhood was not part of either city.

Where the owner lives has no bearing on which post office delivers to a house. That would be strange indeed. Suppose the owner lived in New York. Would the New York post office send a truck 2,800 miles every day to deliver magazines?

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

The city of Los Angeles is huge both in area and in population. As with other sprawling American cities, its name can be used to encompass the much larger metropolitan area locally known as the Southland which includes parts or the entirety of Ventura, Los Angeles, Riverside, San Bernardino and Orange Counties.

"Los Angeles" alone is never used to refer to the county, which is always called "Los Angeles County" or "LA County".

I just got back from there on Saturday. As it happens, I was staying in a house in Los Angeles whose mailing address, along with the others in the neighborhood, is in the city of Santa Monica.

When I lived in LA in the '70s, the city was a small part of the sprawling county that most people think of as LA. Maybe that's changed.

I lived in Venice. One of my nieces lived in the city in the aughts. That's where the gorgeous old train station is.

 

[GoesStation]

When I lived in LA in the '70s, the city was a small part of the sprawling county that most people think of as LA. Maybe that's changed.

I lived in Venice. One of my nieces lived in the city in the aughts. That's where the gorgeous old train station is.

The metropolitan area has certainly grown since the seventies, though it already included significant parts of adjacent counties then. It's not correct to say that most people think of LA County as LA. They're much more likely to be thinking of the far larger metropolitan area.

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

The houses are in the city of Los Angeles, but their mailing addresses are in the city of Santa Monica. How could that be? Does that mean that the owners of the houses live in another city (i.e., they live in the city of Santa Monica)?

Nice!

That's what I mean. LA can refer to the city proper but often refers to the vaster county — or, as I said, used to refer.

There's Venice, that little strip of beach just south of Santa Monica.

For whatever it's worth, I sit corrected.