Cas,
You have taken us back to the very beginning, I am afraid, now if you agree in full to the "Golden Rule" such as this:
Someone wrote (and later deleted):
My reply: I did, days ago. But I asked Kiparsky to go to my own forum. If you don't believe me, please write and ask him. He seem to have turned down my invitation, obviously. In the past I have visited online various universities or colleges and invited many PhDs and professors to my forum -- an old forum controlled by another website. Many of them visited and we had discussions. They didn't help much, to tell the truth. The then forum gradually and freely sent full-screen pop-up advertisement, so I terminated it. (I could have put all the discussions on my website as they obviously agreed to.) I have now set up a mediocre forum of my own. But I don't have a zeal to invite them for discussion. Instead, I go to various forums to seek for help. Now I don't need to take anything from other forums to mine, for people shall know by now that, as an ESL, I am not speaking without evidence or experience.
But I want to tell you bluntly, all of people I have consulted admitted they didn't see any grammar that talks about the Past Family. Or better to say, they could not find any such grammar book.
:B-fly: Back to our topic, if you agree fully to the Golden Rule, please accept my reminder again that it is because of the Rule that grammar writers have put the Past Family into concealment. As I have hinted, the Golden Rule is the only one rule they have so far to explain or support English tenses. And yet the Rule is still a fault. In Asia, since writers cannot often keep in touch with EFLs, they depend heavily on grammars, and therefore they wrongly say:
Ex: *He worked in that factory in the past five years.
:eyes: I put an asterisk in front of the example is because I know how EFLs correctly say it -- in Present Perfect. EFLs know the truth but give Asians the falsity: "Don't use Present Perfect with past time expression." EFLs will eventually learn the correct use of the Past Family as they are immersed in English all the time. We ESLs cannot be so, but sometimes we have to write in English, so grammar rules are important to us. We didn't expect grammar writers are hiding the truth from us, and give us a Golden Rule to the wrong way.
:cheers:
As you now have to agree the Golden Rule, you have to solve the problem of the Past Family. I don't know if this is fair or not.
------------------------------
You wrote:
My reply: Fortunately, not all agreed with you. :wink: I want to remind you, there have been arguments here!! I've explained that even YESTERDAY is less specific than "in the past five minutes". Actually, it is "circular span" that there's no argument there.
:idea: I want to repeat the way to be specific again, in regard to "in the past few days".
We may have to say in Simple Past:
Ex: I met him in the park last year.
== It is in Simple Past because of the "Golden Rule". Actually, I didn't tell when in LAST YEAR. Compared with "in the past few days", LAST YEAR can be regarded as non-specific at all.
The patterns of "in the past few days" can be as specific as down to a few years, months, weeks, days, hours, minutes, or even seconds, and therefore they are specific.
Moreover, I always insist we use some agreed examples for discussion. If you think "in the past few days" is an unknown time, how about IN THE PAST FIVE YEARS?
Ex: He has worked here IN THE PAST TWO YEARS.
Ex: He has worked here IN THE PAST THREE YEARS.
Ex: He has worked here IN THE PAST FIVE YEARS.
Ex: He has worked here IN THE PAST SIX YEARS.
Ex: He has worked here IN THE PAST SEVEN YEARS.
These examples are all grammatical -- I don't know whether you agree or not. I beg you to search for any one of these time adverbials. The searching results can persuade you that only one tense is appropriate for them: Present Perfect.
Now, it is your turn to tell us WHY and HOW to label them as "unknown time". :wink:
opcorn:
You have taken us back to the very beginning, I am afraid, now if you agree in full to the "Golden Rule" such as this:
The present perfect is not compatible with adverbials denoting a specific past time.
http://www-linguistics.stanford.edu/linguistics/semgroup/archive/1999/sf_kiparsky.html
Someone wrote (and later deleted):
I agree in full. Ask Kiparsky
My reply: I did, days ago. But I asked Kiparsky to go to my own forum. If you don't believe me, please write and ask him. He seem to have turned down my invitation, obviously. In the past I have visited online various universities or colleges and invited many PhDs and professors to my forum -- an old forum controlled by another website. Many of them visited and we had discussions. They didn't help much, to tell the truth. The then forum gradually and freely sent full-screen pop-up advertisement, so I terminated it. (I could have put all the discussions on my website as they obviously agreed to.) I have now set up a mediocre forum of my own. But I don't have a zeal to invite them for discussion. Instead, I go to various forums to seek for help. Now I don't need to take anything from other forums to mine, for people shall know by now that, as an ESL, I am not speaking without evidence or experience.
But I want to tell you bluntly, all of people I have consulted admitted they didn't see any grammar that talks about the Past Family. Or better to say, they could not find any such grammar book.
:B-fly: Back to our topic, if you agree fully to the Golden Rule, please accept my reminder again that it is because of the Rule that grammar writers have put the Past Family into concealment. As I have hinted, the Golden Rule is the only one rule they have so far to explain or support English tenses. And yet the Rule is still a fault. In Asia, since writers cannot often keep in touch with EFLs, they depend heavily on grammars, and therefore they wrongly say:
Ex: *He worked in that factory in the past five years.
:eyes: I put an asterisk in front of the example is because I know how EFLs correctly say it -- in Present Perfect. EFLs know the truth but give Asians the falsity: "Don't use Present Perfect with past time expression." EFLs will eventually learn the correct use of the Past Family as they are immersed in English all the time. We ESLs cannot be so, but sometimes we have to write in English, so grammar rules are important to us. We didn't expect grammar writers are hiding the truth from us, and give us a Golden Rule to the wrong way.
:cheers:
As you now have to agree the Golden Rule, you have to solve the problem of the Past Family. I don't know if this is fair or not.
------------------------------
You wrote:
There's no argument there. Adverbs denoting unspecified time are compatible with the Present Perfect. (i.e., "in the past few days" denotes an unknown time within the past few days.)
My reply: Fortunately, not all agreed with you. :wink: I want to remind you, there have been arguments here!! I've explained that even YESTERDAY is less specific than "in the past five minutes". Actually, it is "circular span" that there's no argument there.
:idea: I want to repeat the way to be specific again, in regard to "in the past few days".
We may have to say in Simple Past:
Ex: I met him in the park last year.
== It is in Simple Past because of the "Golden Rule". Actually, I didn't tell when in LAST YEAR. Compared with "in the past few days", LAST YEAR can be regarded as non-specific at all.
The patterns of "in the past few days" can be as specific as down to a few years, months, weeks, days, hours, minutes, or even seconds, and therefore they are specific.
Moreover, I always insist we use some agreed examples for discussion. If you think "in the past few days" is an unknown time, how about IN THE PAST FIVE YEARS?
Ex: He has worked here IN THE PAST TWO YEARS.
Ex: He has worked here IN THE PAST THREE YEARS.
Ex: He has worked here IN THE PAST FIVE YEARS.
Ex: He has worked here IN THE PAST SIX YEARS.
Ex: He has worked here IN THE PAST SEVEN YEARS.
These examples are all grammatical -- I don't know whether you agree or not. I beg you to search for any one of these time adverbials. The searching results can persuade you that only one tense is appropriate for them: Present Perfect.
Now, it is your turn to tell us WHY and HOW to label them as "unknown time". :wink:
opcorn: