The lady keeps/has kept the secret for five years.

[kadioguy]

[My sentences]

a. The lady keeps the secret for five years.
b. The lady has kept the secret for five years.
----
Does (a) work? Well, I think that the following explanation can be applied here, so (a) doesn't work, right?

The verb is present tense, but the 'for three years' is a time period from the past up to the present. They don't go together.

https://www.usingenglish.com/forum/...-has-been-for-three-years.290133/post-1739318

 

[Tarheel]

It's hard to imagine a context for the first sentence. Do you have one?

 

[kadioguy]

It's hard to imagine a context for the first sentence. Do you have one?

Maybe in a story told in the present tense.

 

[Tarheel]

So you don't really have one.

 

[jutfrank]

I agree with Tarheel. If you don't have a context, then you don't really know what you mean. You can't ask if it works if you don't give us the context within which it could (or could not) work.

 

[Tdol]

If she keeps the secret for five years, then reveals it, keeps it again for five years.... However, this is not a great way of keeping a secret.

 

[Madness1]

What about this example? The story is completely made up, by the way.

"The lady's brother goes to prison for armed robbery. She moves to a different town to escape the stigma. When neighbours ask about the reasons for moving, she invents tales about her past and avoids mentioning the true reason.
The lady keeps the secret for five years. Then one day..."

Does the sentence work here? I think it does, but I am not 100% sure.
I certainly wouldn't use b) sentence here.

 

[5jj]

It does, particularly as the summary of a novel, play, film, etc. In a story, past tenses would be more normal.

 

[kadioguy]

How about this?
---
[My sentences]

1.
Mary learns English for many years, but she never goes to English-speaking countries. Today she has a chance to do that - she gets a free ticket to Britain! So she starts to prepare everything she will need on the journey.

2.
Mary has been learning English for many years but she has never been to any English-speaking countries. Today she has a chance to do that - she gets a free ticket to Britain! So she starts to prepare everything she will need on the journey.
----
A friend told me, "Here both are fine. The latter emphasizes the she has a chance sentence though, to me, while the former just lists the events in order."

Me: Do you think that some natives could not accept that the first is correct?

Friend: If they don't realize it's part of a narrative they might say it's incorrect, but I think given the proper context, pretty much everyone would find (1) acceptable.

Me: Do you think the whole passage itself above is enough for a proper context? I mean, if I show them that, could they think the first is okay?

Friend: It should be sufficient context for most people.
----
I posted it here, but members there didn't really tell a reason which convinced me. I now think that (1) is similar to the example Madness1 posted in post #7, so it could work. What do you think?

 

[kadioguy]

What about this example? The story is completely made up, by the way.

"The lady's brother goes to prison for armed robbery. She moves to a different town to escape the stigma. When neighbours ask about the reasons for moving, she invents tales about her past and avoids mentioning the true reason.
The lady keeps the secret for five years. Then one day..."

Does the sentence work here? I think it does, but I am not 100% sure.
I certainly wouldn't use b) sentence here.

Could you tell me why? Because the present perfect would make the sentence look like it happened before the ones in the present simple? Or you are trying to make tenses in agreement?

 

[5jj]

----
I posted it here, but members there didn't really tell a reason which convinced me. I now think that (1) is similar to the example Madness1 posted in post #7, so it could work. What do you think?

I think I won't bother any more with the thread here.

 

[kadioguy]

I think I won't bother any more with the thread here.

I think that we are here to talk about English; You might have your own reasons. That's okay.

 

[5jj]

I think you have been here long enough to know that we ask members not to ask the same question in more than one forum at the same time.

 

[kadioguy]

I think you have been here long enough to know that we ask members not to ask the same question in more than one forum at the same time.

Not at the same time. I thought the question was practically closed in that forum. I wouldn't expect anyone to reply to me there when I posted it here.

 

[Madness1]

Could you tell me why? Because the present perfect would make the sentence look like it happened before the ones in the present simple? Or you are trying to make tenses in agreement?

Not a teacher.

To explain that to you properly, I would have to give you a lesson in English grammar. All I am going to say is that Present Perfect doesn't work the way you are trying to use it. I suggest you study Present Perfect once more and see if the penny drops.

Short explanation: The reason Present Perfect doesn't work is that even though I am using Present Simple to describe the event, I am describing a past event. Present Perfect is used only to describe events that are happening right now or have some kind of connection to the here and now.

If an event is finished and entirely in the past, only Past Simple is appropriate. (Unless, of course, you are narrating. Then Present Simple can work just as well.)

But like I said, if you don't understand the gist of what Present Perfect is about, then unfortunately this post won't be of much help.

PS: One other thing that could work in my example would be this:
"The lady had kept her secret for five years when one day..."
But since you haven't asked about this particular tense, I am not going to dwell on that.

 

[kadioguy]

Short explanation: The reason Present Perfect doesn't work is that even though I am using Present Simple to describe the event, I am describing a past event. Present Perfect is used only to describe events that are happening right now or have some kind of connection to the here and now.

Hi Madness1 (or would you like me to call you grassy?)
I am afraid what you said doesn't work for the following example. If you are all right, then the example below needs some modifications. But I don't think it needs some.

2.
Mary has been learning English for many years but she has never been to any English-speaking countries. Today she has a chance to do that - she gets a free ticket to Britain! So she starts to prepare everything she will need on the journey.

PS: One other thing that could work in my example would be this:
"The lady had kept her secret for five years when one day..."
But since you haven't asked about this particular tense, I am not going to dwell on that.

It looks very strange to me that a sentence in the past perfect follows the other ones in the present simple, especially in a summary like yours.

 

[Madness1]

Mary has been learning English for many years but she has never been to any English-speaking countries. Today she has a chance to do that - she gets a free ticket to Britain! So she starts to prepare everything she will need on the journey.

She has been learning English for many years - she is still learning it.
She has never been to any English-speaking countries - she never visited an English-speaking country before, but that could change in the future.

If you are narrating, let's say, an episode of a TV Series as the camera follows Mary around while the events unfold, then everything in your example is A-OK.
If you are narrating a story in a book, then I can't tell you that for sure because you have provided not enough context.

The general rule of thumb is that Present Perfect is never used in narration but, as is the case with all rules in English, people break and bend them as they please all the time. I may have read a few stories written by ordinary people - as in not professional writers that are knowledgeable about grammar - that used Present Perfect when describing events that have long since passed. I don't think that is good English, though.

The reason Present Perfect is iffy is because, like I said in the previous post, we don't use it to describe events that are finished for good, and stories are, by definition, "finished" events.

It looks very strange to me that a sentence in the past perfect follows the other ones in the present simple, especially in a summary like yours.

Apologies for the confusion. My mistake.
I didn't mean Present Simple can follow Past Perfect. I only tried to say that it is another possibility.
"The lady had kept the secret for five years when one day she met..."
Present Simple following Past Perfect would not work.

 

[jutfrank]

What exactly is your current question, kadioguy?

 

[Tarheel]

Madness 1, the terms "past tense" and "past perfect" and similar terms are not proper nouns.

 

[probus]

If she keeps the secret for five years, then reveals it

At that instant it ceased to be a secret, regardless of what may or may not happen in the future.

When I was very young my father asked me "If you want something to be a secret, how many people can you tell?" I got it wrong by answering "one".