[Grammar] There was no special treatment or personal banquets

[Sneymarin]

Hello, I would some help with this sentence:
"There was no special treatment or personal banquets."
Is "There was" correct? or I should use "there were" instead?

Thank you for your time

 

[GoesStation]

It doesn't work either way because special treatment is singular and personal banquets is plural. You could instead say There was no special treatment; there were no personal banquets.

 

[teechar]

Hello, I would appreciate some help with this sentence:

I would use "There was" in that. We have a compound subject connected by "or", so the verb should agree with the noun closest to it, which in the above is the singular "treatment".

 

[teechar]

It doesn't work either way because special treatment is singular and personal banquets is plural.

Are you saying then that a sentence like the one below is impossible?

There _______ no stapler or staples in the drawer.

We can discuss which verb to use (singular or plural), but surely the sentence is okay otherwise.

 

[jutfrank]

I don't think GS is saying the sentence is impossible, but rather that it's not well constructed.

The issue can be resolved by breaking up the phrase. I'd suggest either of the following:

There was no special treatment and no personal banquets.
There was no special treatment nor any personal banquets.

(Am I the only one who doesn't know what personal banquets means?)

 

[teechar]

There is no issue to resolve! It is perfectly acceptable in English to have a compound subject made up of a plural noun and a singular one, and for the sentence containing that subject to have a "no ... or" structure. I refer you to the example I gave in post #4. I think this is important for learners to know!

 

[jutfrank]

There is no issue to resolve! It is perfectly acceptable in English to have a compound subject made up of a plural noun and a singular one, and for the sentence containing that subject to have a "no ... or" structure. I refer you to the example I gave in post #4. I think this is important for learners to know!

I suppose it depends what you mean by 'perfectly acceptable'.

I agree with GoesStation, emsr2rd2 and Rover_KE that the sentence as it is in post #1 does not work, and that there are better ways of phrasing.

 

[teechar]

Why does it not work?

 

[jutfrank]

Why does it not work?

It's because there's only one negative word. For the sentence to make complete logical sense, there should be two, since the idea is to negate both elements of the compound. That means you can either use and and a second no, like this:

There was no special treatment and no personal banquets.

Or you can get the same result from using nor, like so:

There was no special treatment nor (any) personal banquets.

A third alternative is as GoesStation has it in post #2.

 

[GoesStation]

I think you've put your finger on it, jutfrank. Sadly, the versions with conjunctions also don't work for me because the conjunction requires parallel structures. I think that's what led me to propose my re-cast version.

 

[jutfrank]

Sadly, the versions with conjunctions also don't work for me because the conjunction requires parallel structures.

I'm not certain I follow. Do you mean it's necessary (for you) to repeat the verb?

My opinion on this is that it's a tricky question because it's partly to do with the structure of logic and partly to do with style. I suspect that's why we're disagreeing.

 

[teechar]

I completely disagree.

There was no bread or milk in the kitchen.

Are you saying that's wrong and that you would therefore change it to a "neither-nor" structure?!

Are you implying that "or" can't be used in a sentence (with a compound subject) starting with "there was/were" as in the ones I've cited?! I find that bizarre!

 

[jutfrank]

teechar—I'll give others a chance to answer before commenting further. I'd like to hear a range of reactions to this. I think the very fact that people are disagreeing is quite interesting. I wonder why you think that might be.

 

[teechar]

teechar—I'll give others a chance to answer before commenting further.

Indeed. Let's hope that others will pitch in.

I'd like to hear a range of reactions to this.

So would I.

I think the very fact that people are disagreeing is quite interesting. I wonder why you think that might be.

One side is right and the other is wrong.