Using present perfect with 'before'

[nyota]

- I've seen that woman before but I can't remember where.

We use present perfect to talk about a time from the past until now. If we specify the past by adding 'before' (if before, then not now, finished past), how to explain the use of 'have seen'?

[Bennevis]

I hope I got it right.
The present perfect tense can be thought of as a tense designed to present us with some kind of a result or a state of affairs, mainly over a certain period of time.

I've never seen this guy before.

Here I'm letting the listener/reader know that this is the 1st time I see the guy.

Basically, in the long run, reading (and reading quality literature, like H.G. Wells or J. Grisham) can help you grasp the way these tenses really work.

[nyota]

I hope I got it right.
The present perfect tense can be thought of as a tense designed to present us with some kind of a result or a state of affairs, mainly over a certain period of time.

I've never seen this guy before.

Here I'm letting the listener/reader know that this is the 1st time I see the guy.

Here, however, I can see the result in the present more clearly. I've never seen him before - not until NOW. NOW is the first time I see him, as you said.

But it doesn't seem to work as smoothly in the case of "I've seen her before". I saw her at some point in the past, maybe more than once, but in the past. There's the experience but where's the connection to the present? I feel that the sentence 'flows' and that it's right, but when I think about it, I can't seem to find a clear explanation.

[riquecohen]

Here, however, I can see the result in the present more clearly. I've never seen him before - not until NOW. NOW is the first time I see him, as you said.

But it doesn't seem to work as smoothly in the case of "I've seen her before". I saw her at some point in the past, maybe more than once, but in the past. There's the experience but where's the connection to the present? I feel that the sentence 'flows' and that it's right, but when I think about it, I can't seem to find a clear explanation.

You're right about your sentence; it is correct. This is an 'indefinite' time-expression, in which the present perfect is appropriate.

[Bennevis]

I've seen her before.

Here, like I said in my previous post, the listener/reader is presented with some kind of a result or rather EXPERIENCE.
Have you ever experienced it?

"I have been to New York" vs "I was in New York".

"I have been to New York" implies that you have (IN GENERAL) experienced being in New York.

[nyota]

I've seen her before.

Here, like I said in my previous post, the listener/reader is presented with some kind of a result or rather EXPERIENCE.
Have you ever experienced it?

"I have been to New York" vs "I was in New York".

"I have been to New York" implies that you have (IN GENERAL) experienced being in New York.

Yes, I understand the general concept of 'experience' here. It's just the word 'before' that I was sort of hanging on to. But now when I consider it in terms of an indefinite time expression, as riquecohen noted, it makes sense. 'Before' isn't very specific, it could be any time up till now.

Thanks to both of you for contributing.

[Barb_D]

But note this sentence:

I had never seen him before we ended up on the same flight. After we spent the flight talking, we couldn't be believe we hadn't met before, when we realized all the people we knew in common.

Non-specific time up until a time in the past still uses "before" but in this case, uses past perfect.

[nyota]

But note this sentence:

I had never seen him before we ended up on the same flight. After we spent the flight talking, we couldn't be believe we hadn't met before, when we realized all the people we knew in common.

Non-specific time up until a time in the past still uses "before" but in this case, uses past perfect.

Yep, I have no problem with this one, thanks Barb.

[allenman]

Here I'm letting the listener/reader know that this is the 1st time I see have seen the guy.

See how this works? Perfect time to use the perfect tense!

Not a teacher

[Bennevis]

allenman,

is that a mistake to say "Here I'm letting the listener/reader know that this is the 1st time I see the guy"?