Forum newsfeeds
Forum Newsfeeds


Sites for Teachers

Sites for Teachers




Go Back   UsingEnglish.com ESL Forum > Learning English > Ask a Teacher

Notices

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 01-Dec-2004, 01:56
harrymick's Avatar
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 24
First Language: Chinese
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
harrymick is on a distinguished road
Default How do you pronounce this word?

Dear sir:

I was wondering How you pronounce 'clothes', if you will bite your tongue's top for pronouncing the 'th' before the 'es'. or you won't pronounce the 'es'?
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 01-Dec-2004, 03:07
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 12
First Language: Korean
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
studentabc
Default Re: How do you pronounce this word?

You just pronounce it as close
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 01-Dec-2004, 03:44
harrymick's Avatar
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 24
First Language: Chinese
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
harrymick is on a distinguished road
Default Re: How do you pronounce this word?

really?

but thanks for your reply anyway.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 01-Dec-2004, 07:59
Editor, UsingEnglish.com
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Country: UK
Posts: 25,755
Current Location: Phnom Penh
First Language: English
Member Type: English Teacher
Thanks: 6
Thanked 590 Times in 516 Posts
Tdol has disabled reputation
Default Re: How do you pronounce this word?

Some people do drop the 'th' sound, but if you move your tongue fast enough back, it does work.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 01-Dec-2004, 10:12
Casiopea's Avatar
VIP Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,997
Current Location: China
First Language: English
Member Type: Other
Thanks: 0
Thanked 60 Times in 57 Posts
Casiopea will become famous soon enough
Default Re: How do you pronounce this word?

Quote:
Originally Posted by harrymick
Dear sir:

I was wondering How you pronounce 'clothes', if you will bite your tongue's top for pronouncing the 'th' before the 'es'. or you won't pronounce the 'es'?
I agree. clothes and close, as in Please, close the door, are pronounced the same:

I have new clothes [klo:z].
Please, close [klo:z] the door.

(Note, close, as in We are very close friends, is pronounced with an [s], not [z]: close [klo:s])

Some people pronounce 'th' as [l], like this:

clothes [klo:lz]

Some people pronounce 'th' as a voiced sound, like in the word that:

clothes [klo:]th[z].

Some non-native English speakers pronounce the '-es' in clothes as

clothes [klo:]th[i:z]
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 02-Dec-2004, 00:50
harrymick's Avatar
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 24
First Language: Chinese
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
harrymick is on a distinguished road
Default Re: How do you pronounce this word?

Thank you very much.

No wonder native speaker can speak so fast, they always do drop some sound , or don’t pronounce it at all. Frankly, but I always pronounce every sound as I can as possible, how stupid it looks, doesn’t it.
I really want to know, why you created these rules , but you didn’t stand to (should I use 'abide by' instead of 'stand to')it?
How can I do?

Last edited by harrymick; 02-Dec-2004 at 03:51.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 02-Dec-2004, 11:04
Casiopea's Avatar
VIP Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,997
Current Location: China
First Language: English
Member Type: Other
Thanks: 0
Thanked 60 Times in 57 Posts
Casiopea will become famous soon enough
Default Re: How do you pronounce this word?

Quote:
Originally Posted by harrymick
Thank you very much.
I really want to know, why you created these rules , but you didn’t stand to (should I use 'abide by' instead of 'stand to')it?
How can I do?
You're welcome, and 'abide' is a good word.

The rules were created by speakers. They are the result of natural processes, and they are found in all human languages. For example, in our example (1) below the symbol <th> is pronounced as a voiced sound, as th in that, and it's pronounced that way because of where it sits in the array of sounds.

(1) clothes [klo:]th[z] (th as in that)

th occurs between two vowels, -o..e-, and since vowels are voiced sounds, or rather they require that you vibrate your vocal folds, it's easier to pronouce three voiced sounds in a row than it is to pronounce voiced [o], then stop and pronounce voiceless <th>, then stop and pronounce voiced [e]. So you see, it's easier if all three sounds in that row are voiced. And that's why <th> is pronounced as th in that, rather than th in think. The process by which a voiceless sound is pronounced as a voiced sound is called Voicing, and it's a result of our human anatomy. That is, if you're human, then you're language will have examples of Voicing.

As for why some speakers pronounce <th> as [l], well, that involves two other process: some speakers use Assimilation and other speakers use Disassimilation.

(2a) clothes [klo:lz] Assimilation
(2b) clothes [klo:lz] Disassimilation

The process in (2) could be either Assimilation (to make sounds the same: l...th => l...l) or Disassimilation (to make sounds different: thz => lz).

Assimilation
The speaker, upon pronouncing the first <l> carries that sound over to the next consonant <th>, giving [klo:lz]. Speakers do it because it's more efficient: It's easier on the lips, tongue, and other articulators, and so the speaker doesn't have to spend much energy on forming two sounds, when one sound, [l], will do. Assimilation is found in all human languages, even yours.

Disassimilation
Since th and [z] are very similar sounds, they are difficult to pronounce one after the other, so the speaker changes <th> to [l], to make pronunciation easier.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
pronounce, word

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
what are word orders and word forms? Anonymous Ask a Teacher 2 18-Nov-2004 05:14
Word Checker 1 - The Dolch basic word list Tdol UsingEnglish.com Content 0 24-May-2004 12:26
Word Checker 1 - The Dolch basic word list Tdol UsingEnglish.com Content 0 19-Apr-2004 14:30
Questions about Inversions - Inverted Word Order Anonymous General Language Discussions 21 31-May-2003 21:43


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 05:14.


vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.2.0
Copyright © 2002 - 2008 UsingEnglish.com