American pronunciation

[kamalmuo]

How do we pronounce the letter s in the word this when it comes before a word starts with the letter y in American English?

 

[lauralie2]

How do we pronounce the letter s in the word this when it comes before a word starts with the letter y in American English?

It's still voiceless, at least to me.

thi year :tick: <note that [y] can be devoiced>
thi[z] year :cross:

 

[thatone]

Can be thi[sh]year

 

[lauralie2]

Can be thi[sh]year

Good point! Yes, palatalization can occur in that environment (/s/ becomes [sh], an alveo-palatal). Good ear!

 

[TheNewOne]

I often hear [blesh] in a phrase "bless you".
Is it the same pronunciation as in "thi[sh] year"?
My teacher says it's better to pronounce [bles] because [blesh] is vulgar (or demotic?)

 

[lauralie2]

I often hear [blesh] in a phrase "bless you".
Is it the same pronunciation as in "thi[sh] year"?

Yes, it's the same pronunciation.

My teacher says it's better to pronounce [bles] because [blesh] is vulgar (or demotic?)

I have never heard of that; moreover, to my knowledge blesh isn't even a word in English. I wonder where your teacher got that information from. Please ask and let me know. It's something new to me and I would like to understand it better. Thanks.

 

[TheNewOne]

lauralie2

to my knowledge blesh isn't even a word in English

[blesh] is a transcription of the word "bless".

I wonder where your teacher got that information from. Please ask and let me know.

I can't ask my teacher because it was at school some years ago (I remember I said "Bless [blesh] you" and she said "It's better to say "[bles] you"...". Her words engraved in my memory, but I'm not sure of correct use of the words "vulgar" and "demotic". Maybe that's why you don't understand me.

 

[DreamingAnn]

I think "sounds like" something does not mean one should "pronounce it like" something.
I mean, when you pronounce A, it might sounded like B, but if you pronounce it B, it'll probably sounds like C.

 

[5jj]

It sounds to me as if your teacher was being over-prescriptive. She was probably the sort of person who would think that dropping one's aitches is as sign of vulgarity.

What she didn't realise is that the elision of /s/ to[FONT=&quot]/ʃ/ before /j/ is a normal feature of speech in conversation, even among educated people, as is the dropping of the aitch is such utterances as:

I think he's coming tomorrow.

In formal speech we pronounce the /s/ and /j/ of bless you, and the /h/ of he, but we would actually sound a little strange if we did that in everyday speech.


I am writing as a speaker of BrE, but I have noticed the same thing with speakers of AmE.[/FONT]

 

[birdeen's call]

lauralie2

[blesh] is a transcription of the word "bless".

I can't ask my teacher because it was at school some years ago (I remember I said "Bless [blesh] you" and she said "It's better to say "[bles] you"...". Her words engraved in my memory, but I'm not sure of correct use of the words "vulgar" and "demotic". Maybe that's why you don't understand me.

Where was your teacher from?

 

[TheNewOne]

fivejedjon
Thank you for clearing up!
birdeen's call
She's from Russia.
What do you want from a provincial school-teacher? That's why I started learning English on my own with the help of different English books and Internet.

 

[5jj]

She's from Russia.
What do you want from a provincial school-teacher? That's why I started learning English on my own with the help of different English books and Internet.

Your teacher was over-prescriptive in this particular case, but don't forget that much of the English teaching in the world is done by provincial schoolteachers. Sometimes their knowledge of grammar and pronunciation may be a little dated, but they do a pretty good job overall.

 

[birdeen's call]

She's from Russia.
What do you want from a provincial school-teacher? That's why I started learning English on my own with the help of different English books and Internet.

I didn't mean to belittle your teacher! I was only curious.

 

[TheNewOne]

fivejedjon
birdeen's call
I can't say my school teacher was bad (I just felt that I needed more knowledge than she could give me). Sometimes we disputed about some grammar questions and she told me I wasn't right so I had to prove my case (is it a correct saying?) to get a good mark.

 

[thatone]

It's amazing how some teachers, even after getting a degree in an English-speaking country, stop practicing pronunciation and don't keep up with the ever-changing vocabulary and grammar. Those who actually do, like the ones in this forum, are to be admired. But the truth is most don't, and are fairly incompetent compared to teachers of other subjects.