A victory for United will/would move

[Kontol]

I'm confused by the use of "would" in this sentence. Could you explain how it works in this sentence? If using "will", is it also correct? Before the match, no one knows who will definitely win. We can imagine something happening, but that's no guarantee that it will happen. We can't know what will happen in the future. In this case, both "will" and "would" are very puzzling me because I think both can be used to talk about a hypothetical situation.

Good afternoon and welcome to Sports Mole's live commentary of the Premier League encounter between Wolverhampton Wanderers and Manchester United. The clash is crucial at both ends of the table, with Wolves currently sitting in the bottom three, while victory for United would move Sir Alex Ferguson's side four points clear of Manchester City at the summit.

Live Commentary: Wolverhampton Wanderers vs. Manchester

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[jutfrank]

This is the whole thought:

If Manchester United were to win, ... [condition]
... they would move four points clear. [result of the satisfaction of the condition]

The whole sentence is a hypothetical. That means it's presented as though it's imagined in the speaker's mind.

 

[Kontol]

This is the whole thought:

If Manchester United were to win, ... [condition]
... they would move four points clear. [result of the satisfaction of the condition]

The whole sentence is a hypothetical. That means it's presented as though it's imagined in the speaker's mind.

Yes, I get it. But I have heard a commentator also use "will" in this case. This is said before the match. Are both "will" and "would" interchangeable when we're imagining a situation?

 

[jutfrank]

No. We use will when the result of the condition is real and would when it's unreal.

Have you studied first and second conditionals before?

 

[Kontol]

Yes, I have. But I'm still confused about this.
On Saturday, we (Liverpool) take on Manchester City. A win will send us up to third.

Is this correct?

 

[Tarheel]

The intent is clear. That is, it is clear what the speaker means by that. You can argue about whether it is "correct" or not.

 

[jutfrank]

On Saturday, we (Liverpool) take on Manchester City. A win will send us up to third.

Is this correct?

Yes. That's not a hypothetical. It's expressed as a reality.

 

[Kontol]

Yes. That's not a hypothetical. It's expressed as a reality.

This is what is puzzling me. A win isn't yet known, so it should use "would".

 

[jutfrank]

The result of the satisfaction of the condition is known. If Man United win, they will get three points.

 

[Kontol]

The result of the satisfaction of the condition is known. If Man United win, they will get three points.

I'm a bit confused. Which should we say "will" or "would" before the match starts? Could you explain more clearly how the scenario is?

 

[Rover_KE]

What's puzzling me, Kontol, is your choice of reading matter.

Manchester United has not been 'Sir Alex Ferguson's team' for ten years.

 

[jutfrank]

I'm a bit confused. Which should we say "will" or "would" before the match starts?

It depends on what you want to say.

Write for us a short text and we'll guide you further on which one to use.

 

[Kontol]

It depends on what you want to say.

Write for us a short text and we'll guide you further on which one to use.

For instance: Before the game is in progress, I have to guess what the result will be. No ones knows who will win. In this context, should I use "wil" because the situation is real? "Would" wouldn't be appropriate here, would it?

A win for United today will put ErikTen Hag's side leapfrog Tottenham.

 

[jutfrank]

You can use both but will is the right choice if you want to present the outcome as real:

A win for United today will see Ten Haag's side leapfrog Tottenham into first.

 

[Kontol]

You can use both but will is the right choice if you want to present the outcome as real:

A win for United today will see Ten Haag's side leapfrog Tottenham into first.

Could you explain what the word "real" exactly means in this case? As we know, whether United will win or not, it's not yet known. It's hypothetical (imagined in the speaker's mind). If so, it's better to use "would". Because the possibility of the United win is not yet known.

 

[jutfrank]

If you use will, it isn't hypothetical. When I use the word 'real' I mean 'not hypothetical'.

If United win, they will go four points clear.

This sentence is talking about the future. The speaker is talking about the real world—the world that we live in and have direct experience of.

If United were to win, they would go four points clear.

This sentence is not talking about the future (not 'directly'). It's presenting a hypothetical world, which exists only in the speaker's mind. The outcome is in the world of the imagination, not in the real world that we live in.

The question that you're now going to ask is this: 'Why would a football journalist want to present the result of a real football match as a hypothetical event?'

Do you follow all this so far? I know it's very hard to understand.

 

[emsr2d2]

Let's change the topic of the sentence and see if it's any clearer. Imagine you have bought a lottery ticket for Monday night's draw. You could say:

1. If I win the lottery, I'll (I will) buy a Ferrari.
2. If I won the lottery, I'd (I would) buy a Ferrari.

Both are possible statements when the lottery draw hasn't yet happened but you have a ticket. In the first, you're imagining a real scenario in which you go on to win the lottery and buy a Ferrari. In the second, you're imagining the hypothetical situation in which you might win the lottery and would then be able to afford a Ferrari.

 

[Kontol]

The question that you're now going to ask is this: 'Why would a football journalist want to present the result of a real football match as a hypothetical event?'

Yes, you're right. Could you explain the reason why they use a hypothetical for an real event? This is where my confusion lies.

Well, what if the game has started? For instance.

The game is back underway at Old Trafford!
It will/would be a surprise if the game stays/stayed at 2-1, with both sides desperate for the three points.

My understanding is that I would use "would" here because I'm imagining a situation. Do you agree with me?

 

[Kontol]

Let's change the topic of the sentence and see if it's any clearer. Imagine you have bought a lottery ticket for Monday night's draw. You could say:

1. If I win the lottery, I'll (I will) buy a Ferrari.
2. If I won the lottery, I'd (I would) buy a Ferrari.

Both are possible statements when the lottery draw hasn't yet happened but you have a ticket. In the first, you're imagining a real scenario in which you go on to win the lottery and buy a Ferrari. In the second, you're imagining the hypothetical situation in which you might win the lottery and would then be able to afford a Ferrari.

In sentence 1 and 2, does the speaker have a ticket? My interpretation:

1. The speaker has a ticket.
2. The speaker doesn't have a ticket. No ticket, clearly no win. Therefore the speaker is just talking about an imaginary situation.

 

[Tarheel]

In both situations the speaker has a ticket. (Reread the first sentence.)