Prepositions

[Jorgo]

Could you finally explain me, in following examples, the usage of prepositions that causes "vertigo" to me:

1. Are we saying something is easy/convenient/important/ better (and so on and so forth) TO me or FOR me? (Or that is interchangeable?)

2. Do I keep some important documents/money ON my account/computer/email or IN my acount/computer/emaill ?

3. Do I have something written IN the document or ON the document?

I hope you grasped my point, there is endless number of examples like these. Thanks in advance!

 

[jutfrank]

1. It depends on the meaning.
2. They are not all possible.
3. in

 

[teechar]

Could you [STRIKE]finally[/STRIKE] please explain to me, in the following examples, the usage of prepositions? [STRIKE]that causes "vertigo" to me:[/STRIKE]
...
I hope you grasped my point. There is an endless number of examples like these. Thanks in advance!

First, please note the correct spelling of "email" and "account".

I suggest you try using the following websites to see whether whatever combination you have in mind is common, natural or even possible.

https://books.google.com/ngrams

https://books.google.com/ngrams

https://corpus.byu.edu/bnc/

You can also use www.fraze.it, but you'll have to enclose the string in double quotes.

Do that and let us know how you get on.

 

[Jorgo]

Excuse my belated reply.

I have tried to use aforementioned links but none of them worked (properly) in my case....or at least I didnt know how to use it.

Thanks for provided reply and clarification regarding third question - I think I grasped that something is "on" the list but "in" the document.

Speaking of first question, I googled it and came across bulk of different explanations. So to be very specific.

1. We can meet up tomorrow at 1 p.m. if that is convenient to/for you? Maybe it is easier for/to you to have a meeting before the lunch time.

2. I am not a rich guy, I dont have a lot of money in/on bank account. On the other hand, someone would find on/in my computer, reading a things on/in my email, that that's not a case.

Let's conceive examples like this.
I have to say that since I discovered this website, I became "all ears" for other people (non native, and native as well) grammar expressions :-D

 

[jutfrank]

1. We can meet up tomorrow at 1 p.m. if that is convenient to/for you? Maybe it is easier for/to you to have a meeting before the lunch time.

Use for in both sentences.

2. I am not a rich guy, I dont have a lot of money in/on bank account.

in my bank account

On the other hand, someone would find on/in my computer, reading a things on/in my email, that that's not a case.

That doesn't make sense, I'm afraid. You can't use on the other hand here. Plus, you're contradicting yourself.

As a quick and very general rule, to talk about where digital information is stored, use on:

on my phone
on my computer
on the hard drive
on disc
on the internet

And when talking about the location of information in text/texts, use in:

in my diary
in your email
in post #3
in the Declaration of Independence
in the second paragraph

I have to say that since I discovered this website, I became "all ears" for other people (non native, and native as well) grammar expressions :-D

Unfortunately, that doesn't make sense. What are "grammar expressions"?

 

[teechar]

I have tried to use aforementioned links but none of them worked (properly) in my case

I don't think you tried hard enough!

Take a look at this:
https://books.google.com/ngrams/gra...t1;,easier to you;,c0;.t1;,easier for you;,c0
Try the ngram for the others you've asked about in post #4, and let us know how you get on.

 

[jutfrank]

Although ngram data is a great source of imformation, be aware that you have to learn how to interpret it properly, especially when it comes to prepositions. What it won't do is tell you the differences in meaning and usage between prepositions.

 

[teechar]

But it can (as in the above) help you filter out incorrect/unnatural/unlikely collocations.

 

[Jorgo]

Use for in both sentences.

in my bank account



That doesn't make sense, I'm afraid. You can't use on the other hand here. Plus, you're contradicting yourself.

As a quick and very general rule, to talk about where digital information is stored, use on:

on my phone
on my computer
on the hard drive
on disc
on the internet

And when talking about the location of information in text/texts, use in:

in my diary
in your email
in post #3
in the Declaration of Independence
in the second paragraph




Unfortunately, that doesn't make sense. What are "grammar expressions"?

First, thank you very much for clarification. I memorized everything you said....I think.

In the second example, I ommited "on one hand" before "I am not a rich guy....."and then "on the other hand " followed.

Yes, I noticed now that my last expression ("all ears for grammar expressions of others") was not the best one...I wanted to say that since I have become member of this forum, I listen very attentively what and how other people talk (from the grammatical point of view).

Taking into consideration that your general rule in the third case helped me a lot to distinguish some things, would it be to much if I asked you to provide me brief rule on "to/for me" prepositions? Because the number of possible examples is endless, so if it is possible to provide me some general guidelines, it will be helpfull.
In any case, thank you very much!

 

[Jorgo]

I don't think you tried hard enough!

Take a look at this:
https://books.google.com/ngrams/gra...t1;,easier to you;,c0;.t1;,easier for you;,c0
Try the ngram for the others you've asked about in post #4, and let us know how you get on.

Thanks, but something didnt work when I tried. Truly, i didn't try easier for/to, but some other examples, and it showed me some illogical results.

 

[jutfrank]

Taking into consideration that your general rule in the third case helped me a lot to distinguish some things, would it be to much if I asked you to provide me brief rule on "to/for me" prepositions?

This is a pretty big question, so instead of going deep into an explanantion of semantics, I'll give you some patterns to notice and maybe you can work out the meaning yourself.

adjective + for + somebody (+ to-infinitive)

I hope this is easy for you to understand.
Is it convenient for you to meet at lunchtime?
It will be better for her to talk to me first.
It's important for people to feel in control.

Do the above examples give you a sense of the essential meaning of for?

Now think about the differences in meaning between the following decontextualised pairs. Can you think of contexts/situations in which people might say them?

It looks easy to me.
It looks easy for me.

That sounds better to me.
That sounds better for me.

It's important to me.
It's important for me.

 

[Jorgo]

This is a pretty big question, so instead of going deep into an explanantion of semantics, I'll give you some patterns to notice and maybe you can work out the meaning yourself.

...

Hmm...OK, first part of your post was clearly understood. But, when I came across the second part, that puzzled me. OK, I understand that this could be a hard topic TO you to explain, because I am not native, but I will try to explain it as I understand it, so please, whenever find convenient FOR you - rectify if I am mistaken (including capitalized prepositions here).

Literally translated into my mother tongue (Serbian), for/to me in these aforementioned (your) cases - they have basically the same, almost interchangeable meaning. But going into the nuances, I would say that if something is easir FOR me, it means that circumstances around me, of some specific situation, make it easier. Unlike that, if something is easier TO me, that means that I personally find something, thanks to my skills, education etc etc, easier to me to cope with. Could it work in the same way in English? As I said, these are nuances, and native speaker of my language would hardly pay any attention to this.Even I wouldn't have ever thought of it, hadn't I been puzzled by this issue in English.

 

[Jorgo]

Nothing new here?

 

[jutfrank]

OK, I understand that this could be a hard topic TO you to explain, because I am not native, but I will try to explain it as I understand it, so please, whenever find convenient FOR you - rectify if I am mistaken (including capitalized prepositions here).

It is convenient FOR me to tell you that I appreciate that it's a hard topic FOR you to explain.

The difficult thing FOR you to accept is that unfortunately it's probably not possible to make much sense of this by thinking in Serbian. Let's look at the first pair again. How about if I parse the sentences like this:

It looks easy to me.
It looks easy for me.

Does that help?

 

[Jorgo]

Thanks for your effort, really but it still doesnt ring a bell to me. Despite everything you have done to try to help me understanding these nuances. My "ear" tells me the difference, at least something sounds more odd to me, in some particular cases, but I dont "understand" the difference. Either I am not a "nitpicker", or just my language is still far awar from that point to grasp the differences in meaning in these cases. Never mind, I think it's going to unfold on its own way, as time goes by.

Once again, thank you for your effort and time. (Moderators, I know you have told me that one "thanks" click would be enough, but I just breached the rule in this case intentionally , because he did his best).

 

[jutfrank]

Despite everything you have done to try to help me understanding these nuances. My "ear" tells me the difference, at least something sounds more odd to me, in some particular cases, but I dont "understand" the difference. Either I am not a "nitpicker", or just my language is still far awar from that point to grasp the differences in meaning in these cases. Never mind, I think it's going to unfold on its own way, as time goes by.

It's my fault, Jorgo, for not being clear enough for you in the first place. I just wanted to encourage you to think about it, hoping that you might notice a difference. Please don't worry, because as your English improves, your understanding of nuances like this will gradually unfold.

Until then, because good teachers don't like to give up, let me give you one last bit of help.

It looks easy to me.

This means I have the impression that it is easy. Everybody would find it easy.

It looks easy for me.

This means I don't think that I would have difficulty with it. Maybe other people would, but not me.

 

[Jorgo]

It's my fault, Jorgo, for not being clear enough for you in the first place. I just wanted to encourage you to think about it, hoping that you might notice a difference. Please don't worry, because as your English improves, your understanding of nuances like this will gradually unfold.

Until then, because good teachers don't like to give up, let me give you one last bit of help.

It looks easy to me.

This means I have the impression that it is easy. Everybody would find it easy.

It looks easy for me.

This means I don't think that I would have difficulty with it. Maybe other people would, but not me.

OH YEAAAH!!!! Now it is cristal clear! Thanks so much, you are the most persistent teacher I have ever had

Got it finally!

 

[tzfujimino]

Why don't you change your username to 'Mr. Preposition', jutfrank?:-D
(Your posts about prepositions have been really informative. I've learned a lot from you. Thank you.)

 

[jutfrank]

Why don't you change your username to 'Mr. Preposition', jutfrank?:-D
(Your posts about prepositions have been really informative. I've learned a lot from you. Thank you.)

Thank you. I'm really happy to hear that.

 

[Jorgo]

Althought it's been a while, I have decided to ask another question regarding prepositions, which are small "Pandora's box" to me.

Yesterday my secretary called me, informing me:

"In one hour or so, you will receive the contract ON your email"

Was she grammaticaly correct? Does "on" follow verb "to receive"? Or she should have said - "you will receive the contract IN your email", according to the rule?