usage of 'request'

[tree123]

Is it wrong to use 'request someone to do something'? For example, I request to delete this thread.

Is it correct if I say 'I request the deletion of this thread'?

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It seems the question is valueless. If Piscean doesn't mind, Rover_KE, can I request to delete this thread so I will not waste the space of the server, and time of other people's? - by tree123

It seems the question is valueless. If Piscean doesn't mind, Rover_KE, can I ask you to delete this thread so I will not waste the space of the server, and the time of other members? - corrected by Tarheel

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[tedmc]

"Request"is a transitive verb requiring an object. You have used it without an object

 

[tree123]

"Request"is a transitive verb requiring an object. You have used it without an object

I think so. Except for Tarheel's correction, would you please answer my question as below?

Is it correct if I say 'I request the deletion of this thread'?

 

[teechar]

Is it wrong to use 'request someone to do something'? For example, I request to delete this thread.

Your example doesn't match the quoted structure.

Is it correct if I say 'I request the deletion of this thread'?

It's not wrong, but it sounds overly formal. Take a look at the link below, and you'll see why Tarheel suggested an alternative wording.

"Request" is a transitive verb requiring an object.

Not always. Take a look at the link below.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/request

 

[jutfrank]

Is it wrong to use 'request someone to do something'? For example, I request to delete this thread.

I say yes, it is wrong. Note that you have not used the construction you're asking about, but I'll tell you that request to do something is also wrong, in my judgement.

Is it correct if I say 'I request the deletion of this thread'?

Yes, that's fine. That's a simple transitive use of the verb.

 

[jutfrank]

"Request"is a transitive verb requiring an object.

Not always. Take a look at the link below.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/request

Which examples are you thinking of as intransitive?

 

[tzfujimino]

I don't want to make things complicated, but I'd like to ask tedmc what he meant by "an object". I suspect he meant "a personal pronoun", such as "you". (It is an object, of course.)

 

[teechar]

Which examples are you thinking of as intransitive?

The manager requested that all staff attend the induction course.

 

[Phaedrus]

I say yes, it is wrong. Note that you have not used the construction you're asking about, but I'll tell you request to do something is also wrong, in my judgement.

I have never liked it when people use the "request NP to VP" structure (I greatly prefer the "request that NP VP" structure), but it seems undeniable that it is a legitimate structure. Many examples can be found online, including in online corpora.

Interestingly, the passive correlate ("NP was/were/are/is requested to VP"), which sounds much better to me, is much more common. For what it's worth, I came upon the following example of "request NP to VP" just the other day in a novel by Henry James.

"Miss Jessel had, with a very high manner about it, requested her to mind her business, and the good woman had on this directly approached little Miles."

- Henry James, The Turn of the Screw (1898)

 

[jutfrank]

I have never liked it when people use the "request NP to VP" structure (I greatly prefer the "request that NP VP" structure), but it seems undeniable that it is a legitimate structure. Many examples can be found online, including in online corpora.

One of the perks of being a teacher is that you can get away with dictating to your students what's right and wrong, based on your own personal preferences. ;-)

 

[tedmc]

I don't want to make things complicated, but I'd like to ask tedmc what he meant by "an object". I suspect he meant "a personal pronoun", such as "you". (It is an object, of course.)

An object has broader meanings than inanimate objects. See definition 4 here.

 

[tedmc]

The manager requested that all staff attend the induction course.

Maybe, using transitivity and object is not the best way to explain the use of "request".

You have to request something, tangible or intangible. "That all staff attend the induction course" is that something. That is why "request to" is not correct.

 

[Phaedrus]

For example, I request to delete this thread.

Having checked the OED, I now realize that this sentence is grammatically correct. It just can't mean what you want it to mean. That's why it seems incorrect. The sentence "I request to delete this thread" means the same thing as "Can I delete this thread?"

The problem is, you don't have the power to delete threads. Nor do I. Only the moderators do. What you meant was "I request to have this thread deleted." And that means the same thing as "Can you delete this thread for me?" Here is the relevant OED definition:

request

3b. transitive. With infinitive as object. To express a wish or desire to have, hear, etc., something; to ask or beg the favour or permission to be allowed to do something, or for another person to perform a favour.

1565 T. Stapleton tr. Bede Hist. Church Eng. v. xxii. f. 181 He requested farder to haue instructions by his letters what maner of tonsure the clergy should vse.
1600 T. Dekker Shomakers Holiday 6 It is now almost a yeare since he requested To trauell countries for experience.
c1600 Resurrection of Our Lord (1912) 2 Your honour doth remember, howe yester nyght last A worshipfull Senatour here was not agast Bouldlye to request his corps, to be buried.
a1616 W. Shakespeare Taming of Shrew (1623) iv. iii. 121 But did you not request to haue it cut? View more context for this quotation
1641 T. Hayne tr. M. Adam Life & Death Dr. Martin Luther 29 He requested to heare Erasmus judgement concerning Luther.
1699 in Colonial Rec. Pennsylvania (1852) I. 549 Requesting to be discharged from his confinement.
1769 H. Brooke Fool of Quality IV. xvii. 205 [He] requested to speak with him apart.
1784 Laura & Augustus III. 117 I requested to place down my own name for two chances.
1818 G. S. Faber Horæ Mosaicæ (ed. 2) I. 217 He again and again requests to be excused from the ungrateful task.
1853 G. J. Cayley Las Alforjas II. 55 We had requested to sleep in the straw-loft, but our host absolutely refused.
1914 St. Nicholas Oct. 1068/1 Dave Altizer was sent to short to replace another player, and requested to be allowed a few practice throws.
1943 Ld. Alanbrooke Diary 24 Aug. in War Diaries (2001) 448 Just before dinner Winston requested to talk to me on the scrambler.
2008 Atlantic Monthly Jan. 112/2 I had requested to live on a co-ed floor, and consequently the lounge was always trashed.

 

[teechar]

Maybe, using transitivity and object is not the best way to explain the use of "request".

It's not a matter of "the best way" or not. It's simply wrong! This (giving advice about grammar and grammatical terms) is especially important given that this is a language-learning forum.

 

[jutfrank]

Maybe, using transitivity and object is not the best way to explain the use of "request".

You have to request something, tangible or intangible. "That all staff attend the induction course" is that something. That is why "request to" is not correct.

Yes, I understand what you mean, tedmc. I believe that in grammatical terms, the that-clause functions as complement. (Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.)

In semantics terms, we would say that the verb request is a two-place predicate, since it requires two arguments, one of those being the 'something, tangible or intangible' that you speak of.

 

[Phaedrus]

In the OED, all these uses are categorized as transitive.

The pilot requested that he be allowed to land. / The pilot requested that the air traffic controllers allow him to land.

There the "that"-clause is the object (or complement) of "requested."

The pilot requested the air-traffic controllers to allow him to land.

There "the air traffic controllers" functions as (raised) object of "requested."

The pilot requested to land.

There the infinitival clause "to land" is the object (or complement) of "requested" (see the OED definition in Post #13).

 

[jutfrank]

In the OED, all these uses are categorized as transitive.

The pilot requested that he be allowed to land. / The pilot requested that the air traffic controllers allow him to land.

There the "that"-clause is the object (or complement) of "requested."

The pilot requested the air-traffic controllers to allow him to land.

There "the air traffic controllers" functions as (raised) object of "requested."

The pilot requested to land.

There the infinitival clause "to land" is the object (or complement) of "requested" (see the OED definition in Post #13).

Right, okay. I understood that in grammatical terms, a verb is transitive only if the complement is a direct object (necessarily a noun phrase), which is why I was uncertain whether to call teechar's example in post #8 'transitive'.

 

[Phaedrus]

Right, okay. I understood that in grammatical terms, a verb is transitive only if the complement is a direct object (necessarily a noun phrase), which is why I was uncertain whether to call teechar's example in post #8 'transitive'.

Yes, in that sense, only the complementation pattern that you and I don't like (I requested him to assist) has a direct object (him). Of course, the structure found in I requested his assistance is also perfectly fine, but that structure is not at issue in this thread.

I don't think there's any harm in widening the concept of "object of a verb" to incorporate the structures that the linguists at the OED classify as transitive. Consider wh-questions. In the following dialogues, what may, I think, be said to ask for the object of the verb.

A: I asked that he assist.
B: I'm sorry. What did you ask?
A: That he assist.

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A: The students requested to go to the bathroom.
B: I'm sorry. What did they request?
A: To go to the bathroom.

 

[jutfrank]

In the following dialogues, what may, I think, be said to ask for the object of the verb.

A: I asked that he assist.
B: I'm sorry. What did you ask?
A: That he assist.

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A: The students requested to go to the bathroom.
B: I'm sorry. What did they request?
A: To go to the bathroom.

That seems reasonable to me.

I think what you've shown there is that that-clauses can be classified as what are known in the philosophy of language as 'singular terms'. That is, they are referring expressions of a particular kind.

In the case of the verb request, a that-clause may fulfil one of the two semantic roles required—i.e., the 'what' in your examples.

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

I have never liked it when people use the "request NP to VP" structure (I greatly prefer the "request that NP VP" structure), . . . .

I agree. It sonds wrong. I'd use ask, not request.