... you really must have got to grips with the absolute basics first.

[kadioguy]

Again, you have made very basic mistakes. If you're going to try to write longer sentences, you really must have got to grips with the absolute basics first. Using "I were" shows us that you are still not ready and that you have not been studying at the right level.

https://www.usingenglish.com/forum/threads/280891-schedule post #3

a. If you're going to try to write longer sentences, you really must have got to grips with the absolute basics first.

b. If you're going to try to write longer sentences, you really must get to grips with the absolute basics first. (My sentence)

Do they mean:

a. If you're going to try to write longer sentences, you really must have got to grips with the absolute basics first (before).

b. If you're going to try to write longer sentences, you really must get to grips with the absolute basics first (now).

Am I right?

 

[tedmc]

kadioguy

I do not see the point in repeating the pair of sentences (a & b).
The difference is that the present perfect tense refers to that specific instance (OP's current position of having to have done A before doing B) while the present tense talks about something in general. It is insignificant.

 

[kadioguy]

I do not see the point in repeating the pair of sentences (a & b).

I assume:

(a) means that "if you're going to do something, you really must have done another thing first before". For example,

If you're going to play basketball now, I think that you really must have finished your homework.

(b) means that "if you're going to do something, you really must do another thing first now". For example,

If you're going to play basketball later, you really must finish your homework (now).

 

[tedmc]

kadioguy
You are merely restating the two sentences without explaining.

P.S. It is a question of having done it earlier or having to do it now, which makes no difference since it has not been done.

 

[kadioguy]

You are merely restating the two sentences without explaining.

I hope the following will make them clearer:

(a) means that "if you're going to do something, you really must have done another thing first before".
↓
The speaker is thinking that the "another thing" should have been done in the past.


(b) means that "if you're going to do something, you really must do another thing first now".
↓
The speaker is thinking that the "another thing" should be done now.

 

[teechar]

If you're going to try to write longer sentences, you really must have got to grips with the absolute basics first.

You really need to have got to grips with the absolute basics first, before attempting to write longer sentences.
You need to reach/attain that level first.
The use of the perfect indicates a state (in this case language proficiency level).

Does that help?

 

[kadioguy]

a. If you're going to try to write longer sentences, you really must have got to grips with the absolute basics first.

You really need to have got to grips with the absolute basics first, before attempting to write longer sentences.

You need to reach/attain that level first.

The use of the perfect indicates a state (in this case language proficiency level).

Does that help?

Thank you, teechar.

Then how about this one? What different effect exists between them?

b. If you're going to try to write longer sentences, you really must get to grips with the absolute basics first.

 

[teechar]

The basic meaning is the same, but the focus is different.
The perfect aspect implies duration. In other words, it takes time to learn the basics.

 

[kadioguy]

The basic meaning is the same, but the focus is different.
The perfect aspect implies duration. In other words, it takes time to learn the basics.

What do you think about my posts #3 and #5?

 

[teechar]

No. Those inferences are not correct.

 

[tedmc]

The basic meaning is the same, but the focus is different.
The perfect aspect implies duration. In other words, it takes time to learn the basics.

The thing about attaining a level and duration associated with the present perfect tense isn't covered in the grammar books. What about the simple present?

 

[teechar]

What do you mean?
The present perfect connects the past to the present. Does that not imply a durative aspect?

 

[kadioguy]

You really need to have got to grips with the absolute basics first, before attempting to write longer sentences.

c. You really need to have got to grips with the absolute basics first, before attempting to write longer sentences.

d. You really need to get to grips with the absolute basics first, before attempting to write longer sentences.

What different effect exists between them? :-?

The basic meaning is the same, but the focus is different.
The perfect aspect implies duration. In other words, it takes time to learn the basics.

Then how about the present simple? Does it simply make a suggestion?

 

[teechar]

I'm not going to keep repeating the same answer. I've had enough. This is not the first time you've done this, Kadioguy. You take hold of one point and grind it to oblivion, even after plenty of discussion and after you've received lots of replies.

 

[kadioguy]

I'm not going to keep repeating the same answer. I've had enough. This is not the first time you've done this, Kadioguy. You take hold of one point and grind it to oblivion, even after plenty of discussion and after you've received lots of replies.

I am sorry, but I don't think the question has been fully explained. Even tedmc can't really understand, let alone me.

 

[teechar]

The present perfect connects the past to the present. Do you understand that?

 

[kadioguy]

I've had enough. This is not the first time you've done this, Kadioguy. You take hold of one point and grind it to oblivion, even after plenty of discussion and after you've received lots of replies.

I didn't know you had such an impression of me. Having such an impression, you still replied to my thread here. Thank you for your help.

 

[kadioguy]

The present perfect connects the past to the present. Does that not imply a durative aspect?

In this case the use of the present perfect seems more like to me that you have (already) done/got A, so you are qualified to do B.

The present perfect connects the past to the present. Do you understand that?

Yes.

 

[teechar]

In this case the use of the present perfect seems more like to me that you have (already) done/got A, so you are qualified to do B.

Fine. Then that also solves the problem.

 

[kadioguy]

P.S. It is a question of having done it earlier or having to do it now, which makes no difference since it has not been done.

I now find that this answer may have already solved my question. :roll: