"some" as an adjective has occupied the place to modify "thing"

A Chinese English teacher says:

When using "beautiful" to modify "something", it should be placed behind it: "something beautiful" rather than "beautiful something". Why? English grammar books say it is simply a rule without reason. I'd say there is indeed some reason for doing so. Because "something" is composed of "some" and "thing", and "some" as an adjective has occupied the place to modify "thing", so "beautiful" must be put behind it.

Do you native English speakers think that he is right? This "reason" is faulty to me since two or more adjectives can be placed before a noun and modify it together.

Re: "some" as an adjective has occupied the place to modify "thing"

It's not an infallible rule. There are cases where a writer might choose to say "a beautiful something"; learners should not try this.

I don't think it's useful to look for an explanation for adjective placement.

Re: "some" as an adjective has occupied the place to modify "thing"

GoodTaste said:

I'd say there is indeed some reason for doing so. Because "something" is composed of "some" and "thing", and "some" as an adjective has occupied the place to modify "thing", so "beautiful" must be put behind it.

Do you native English speakers think that he is right?

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Who is 'he'? Do you mean you?

No, you're not right, for several reasons, I think. For a start, some is not an adjective but a determiner.

I wouldn't bother trying to analyse this if I were you. With regard to use, I think it will suffice to say that this kind of postposition of adjectives is confined to certain fixed and/or poetic expressions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postp...postnominal,regnant, or all matters financial.

Re: "some" as an adjective has occupied the place to modify "thing"

jutfrank said:

Who is 'he'? Do you mean you?

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Not me. He's a guy who said he's an offical English trainer of BOV.

The original version is in Chinese and I translated it into English.

Re: "some" as an adjective has occupied the place to modify "thing"

Here are some numbers from Ngram.
https://books.google.com/ngrams/gra...ng beautiful;,c0;.t1;,beautiful something;,c0

I can honestly not follow the person's logic, but something beautiful is much more common.

Re: "some" as an adjective has occupied the place to modify "thing"

Tdol said:

Here are some numbers from Ngram.
https://books.google.com/ngrams/gra...ng beautiful;,c0;.t1;,beautiful something;,c0

I can honestly not follow the person's logic, but something beautiful is much more common.

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Please post the graph here. Ngram is blocked.

Piscean said:

What is BOV?

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Beijing Olympics Volunteers.

Re: "some" as an adjective has occupied the place to modify "thing"

GoodTaste said:

Beijing Olympics Volunteers.

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How did you expect international readers to know that?

Re: "some" as an adjective has occupied the place to modify "thing"

Here you go:

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Re: "some" as an adjective has occupied the place to modify "thing"

"This beautiful something is fire":


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[h=3]Beauties of Classical English Poetry - Page 171[/h]

Re: "some" as an adjective has occupied the place to modify "thing"

As I said, "beautiful something" is not impossible.

Re: "some" as an adjective has occupied the place to modify "thing"

GoesStation said:

As I said, "beautiful something" is not impossible.

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And further, “beautiful something” here seems to be better than “something beautiful”.
I am not very sure.

Re: "some" as an adjective has occupied the place to modify "thing"

GoodTaste said:

And further, “beautiful something” here seems to be better than “something beautiful”.
I am not very sure.

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It works very well in the context. This is not something a learner should attempt or even pay much attention to. I'm sorry I mentioned the possibility.

Re: "some" as an adjective has occupied the place to modify "thing"

GoodTaste said:

And further, “beautiful something” here seems to be better than “something beautiful”.
I am not very sure.

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I'd go much further and say that this something beautiful is not possible. I mean, it's not grammatical—anything is possible with poetic licence.

Note that the word this is in the determiner slot in this ungrammatical noun phrase. Perhaps this gets to what you were getting at in post #1?

Re: "some" as an adjective has occupied the place to modify "thing"

jutfrank said:

I'd go much further and say that this something beautiful is not possible. I mean, it's not grammatical—anything is possible with poetic licence.

Note that the word this is in the determiner slot in this ungrammatical noun phrase. Perhaps this gets to what you were getting at in post #1?

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I've had a hard time in understanding the post of yours above. Allow me to get it one by one:

Does "it's not grammatical" mean the phrase "this something beautiful" is not grammatical?

In other words, "This beautiful something is fire" is grammatical.

Re: "some" as an adjective has occupied the place to modify "thing"

GoodTaste said:

Does "it's not grammatical" mean the phrase "this something beautiful" is not grammatical?

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Yes. The phrase has the structure DET + N + ADJ

In other words, "This beautiful something is fire" is grammatical.

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Yes. The phrase has the structure DET + ADJ + N

I do think that what I've said here is arguable, however.