Commas

[Allen165]

I think the commas in the sentence below should've been omitted because they imply that Vince Carter has only one cousin, which is unlikely to be true.

Vince Carter drives past his cousin, Tracy McGrady, on Friday night as the Magic topped the Pistons. (Source: NBA.com: Photos - Game Action: Dec. 3)

What do you think?

Thanks!

 

[lauralie2]

I think the commas in the sentence below should've been omitted because they imply that Vince Carter has only one cousin, which is unlikely to be true.

Vince Carter drives past his cousin, Tracy McGrady, on Friday night as the Magic topped the Pistons. (Source: NBA.com: Photos - Game Action: Dec. 3)

What do you think?

Thanks!

The appositive 'Tracy McGrady' renames the noun phrase 'his cousin'. That it is set-off by commas tells us it is not essential to the meaning of the sentence: you could leave it out and it would not change the meaning.

 

[Allen165]

The appositive 'Tracy McGrady' renames the noun phrase 'his cousin'. That it is set-off by commas tells us it is not essential to the meaning of the sentence: you could leave it out and it would not change the meaning.

But I think "Tracy McGrady" is essential because it tells us which cousin is in question.

 

[e2e4]

/A learner/

I think the commas in the sentence below should've been omitted because they imply that Vince Carter has only one cousin, which is unlikely to be true.

Vince Carter drives past his cousin, Tracy McGrady, on Friday night as the Magic topped the Pistons. (Source: NBA.com: Photos - Game Action: Dec. 3)

What do you think?

Thanks!

But I think "Tracy McGrady" is essential because it tells us which cousin is in question.

My opinion's bellow.

The "Tracy McGrady" here, works for me like a non-defining relative clause to "Vince Carter drives past his cousin"
The cousin here is "his". It means the cousin is defined by that.
If I have understood my, a few, grammar books properly, the additional relative clause is non defining clause then.
Even though we didn't know the name of his cousin we know that it is his cousin and not somebody else's.

I think that this word order bellow asks for no commas.

Vince Carter drives past Tracy McGrady who is his cousin, on Friday night..

Here, "who is his cousin" is a defining relative clause then.

 

[5jj]

I think that this word order below asks for no commas.

Vince Carter drives past Tracy McGrady who is his cousin, on Friday night.

Here, "who is his cousin" is a defining relative clause then.

It would be a defining relative clause in: He drove past the Tracy McGrady who is his cousin.. assuming that two or more people bear that name, but only one of them is his cousin.

In your example, it has to be non- defining, with commas.

 

[Allen165]

It would be a defining relative clause in: He drove past the Tracy McGrady who is his cousin.. assuming that two or more people bear that name, but only one of them is his cousin.

In your example, it has to be non- defining, with commas.

But isn't it defining because it tells us which cousin? Vince Carter has several cousins, and "Tracy McGrady" tells us which one he's driving past. Setting off "Tracy McGrady" with commas implies, to me, that he has only one cousin.

 

[lauralie2]

But I think "Tracy McGrady" is essential because it tells us which cousin is in question.

Yes, that's true, but it would change the meaning the author intended: Tracy is not in focus, Vince is. :-D

 

[5jj]

But isn't it defining because it tells us which cousin? Vince Carter has several cousins, and "Tracy McGrady" tells us which one he's driving past. Setting off "Tracy McGrady" with commas implies, to me, that he has only one cousin.

Not necessarily. Defining who immediately after Tracy McGrady can only define Tracey McGrady, not cousin. Names of people are not generally defined, though further information may be given about the people, because we generally assume that there is only one person of that name - at least in the situation described.

 

[SoothingDave]

But isn't it defining because it tells us which cousin? Vince Carter has several cousins, and "Tracy McGrady" tells us which one he's driving past. Setting off "Tracy McGrady" with commas implies, to me, that he has only one cousin.

We've had this issue arise before, though usually it is with brothers. There is a faction here that agrees with you. I do not think people generally intend to imbue so much meaning into a comma. To assume someone is the only cousin (or is not the only cousin) because of the presence or absence of a comma, to me, seems to be asking for too much.

I think most people set off names with commas because there is a natural pause when saying "my brother, Tom, ..."

 

[Allen165]

We've had this issue arise before, though usually it is with brothers. There is a faction here that agrees with you. I do not think people generally intend to imbue so much meaning into a comma. To assume someone is the only cousin (or is not the only cousin) because of the presence or absence of a comma, to me, seems to be asking for too much.

I think most people set off names with commas because there is a natural pause when saying "my brother, Tom, ..."

I disagree with you. To me, the purpose of punctuation is (among other things) to allow us to make such fine distinctions.

 

[sash2008]

Hi Jasmin,
This is called a parenthetical element.

Rules for Comma Usage

 

[5jj]

Remember, too, that(,) in English(,) there are some 'rules' about commas that all careful writers observe; the rule about separating non-defining clauses from other parts of the sentence by commas is one of these. In other places(,) we have a great deal of freedom. Some of the rules you read are simply the opinions of the writer.

 

[Allen165]

I sent an e-mail to Pat O'Connor of grammarphobia.com asking whether the commas were correct, and here's what she had to say:

"You’re right. Unless Carter has only one cousin, the cousin’s name should NOT be set off with commas.

You’d be amazed at how often English teachers are wrong (and at how many write to me with relatively simple questions about grammar and usage)."

At least someone agrees with me.

 

[Allen165]

And here's a helpful link on appositives:

The Grammarphobia Blog » Blog Archive » Jenny was a friend of mine

 

[Johnson_F]

I have a weird sort of admiration for people like Pat O'Connor. It must be wonderful to know that you (= P O'C) are right, and that everybody who thinks differently is wrong. Most of us normal mortals think that there are no absolute rules in cases such as this.

 

[Allen165]

I have a weird sort of admiration for people like Pat O'Connor. It must be wonderful to know that you (= P O'C) are right, and that everybody who thinks differently is wrong. Most of us normal mortals think that there are no absolute rules in cases such as this.

What's so hard to accept about having absolute rules in a case like this one? The rules are quite simple to follow and allow us to economize words.

"I gave the present to my daughter, Anne." = You have only one daughter.

"I gave the present to my daughter Anne." = You have more than one daughter.

 

[SoothingDave]

What's hard to accept is that you may believe there is a hard and fast rule here, but that doesn't mean that someone whose text you read knows the rule.

So, like I said originally, I would not presume to assume that someone has one or more cousins based on a comma.

 

[Allen165]

What's hard to accept is that you may believe there is a hard and fast rule here, but that doesn't mean that someone whose text you read knows the rule.

So, like I said originally, I would not presume to assume that someone has one or more cousins based on a comma.

That is true, but it's not my problem. The fact that someone else is oblivious to the rules doesn't mean I should neglect them or lower my standards.

If the rules weren't logical and easy to follow, I'd be more tolerant, but they are.

 

[5jj]

'Rules' are simply what observers have noted to be what generally happens.

The 'rule' about commas with defining and non-defining clauses is generally followed because it has proved to be useful.

If I (,) or anybody else (,) chooses to disagree with Pat O'Connor (,) about/on/over the sentence we have been discussing, I do not feel any concern about 'lowering my standards' What standards? Whose standards?

 

[Allen165]

'Rules' are simply what observers have noted to be what generally happens.

The 'rule' about commas with defining and non-defining clauses is generally followed because it has proved to be useful.

If I (,) or anybody else (,) chooses to disagree with Pat O'Connor (,) about/on/over the sentence we have been discussing, I do not feel any concern about 'lowering my standards' What standards? Whose standards?

"The party opposed taxes(,) which would be a burden to working Canadians."

Surely, you would agree that placing a comma after "taxes" would change the meaning of the sentence. With the comma, the party would be opposing taxes of any kind, all of which would be a burden to working Canadians. Without the comma, the party would be opposing only those taxes that would be a burden to working Canadians. Well, the same principle applies to the sentence "Vince Carter drives past his cousin(,) Tracy McGrady(,) on Friday night as the Magic topped the Pistons." By setting off "Tracy McGrady" with commas, I am telling the reader that "Tracy McGrady" is a nonrestrictive appositive and Vince Carter's only cousin.

The use or omission of commas allows us to express ourselves in fewer words, which, to me, seems quite useful. To say that I am ascribing too much meaning to commas is to argue against this utility.

Here's another link that seems to back me up.

"John-Boy's sister Mary Ellen became a nurse after their brother Ben took a job at a lumber mill.

Because John-Boy has multiple sisters and brothers, the two restrictive appositives make clear which sister and which brother the writer is talking about. In other words, the two appositives are restrictive, and so they are not set off by commas." (Source: How to Build Sentences with Appositives - Appositive Phrases and Sentence Constructions - Building and Combining Sentences.)