require + ing

[notletrest]

"The -ing form of a verb following require always has a passive meaning." is from a dictionary..But how do you think of the one : Most tests require collecting cells . Does collecting has a passive meaning here?
Thanks!　

 

[Tdol]

Yes- most tests require cells to be collected (by swabbing...)

 

[notletrest]

Yes- most tests require cells to be collected (by swabbing...)

1. In my humble eyes: "The -ing form of a verb following require always has a passive meaning." means that the subject of the sentence is the acceptor of -ing ,not the object of -ing, for example, the man requires helping.= the man requires to be helped.
Am I right?
2.If the above is right, the sentence that the crops require absorbing water is wrong.
Thanks!

 

[shannico]

: Most tests require collecting cells .
Does collecting has a passive meaning here?
Thanks!　[/QUOTE]


Like need, require is one of those verbs which may hold an objective structure: i.e.

Subj+require+object+to+infinitive

I think it is a passive in that

Most tests require cells to be collected.

The only thing here is that the agent is implied by the contests (who is meant to collect these cells? Students, biologists or just anybody???)

Most tests + require+ (people/students/biologists)+to collect cells


Therefore, in this case the object becomes the "holder"of a passive structure,

Mosts tests+require+cells+to be collected (by people/students/biologists)

which may also be rendered by adding +ing straight after require and before the object.


If you google up "Most tests require cells to be collected" you'll come across other similar sentences e.g.

Most jurisdictions require samples to be collected...

which we can change into

Most jurisdictions require collecting samples...

Hope it works for you.

 

[notletrest]

: Most tests require collecting cells .
Does collecting has a passive meaning here?
Thanks!　

Like need, require is one of those verbs which may hold an objective structure: i.e.

Subj+require+object+to+infinitive

I think it is a passive in that

Most tests require cells to be collected.

The only thing here is that the agent is implied by the contests (who is meant to collect these cells? Students, biologists or just anybody???)

Most tests + require+ (people/students/biologists)+to collect cells


Therefore, in this case the object becomes the "holder"of a passive structure,

Mosts tests+require+cells+to be collected (by people/students/biologists)

which may also be rendered by adding +ing straight after require and before the object.


If you google up "Most tests require cells to be collected" you'll come across other similar sentences e.g.

Most jurisdictions require samples to be collected...

which we can change into

Most jurisdictions require collecting samples...

Hope it works for you.[/QUOTE]
According to you," I require beating the dog," is right too. Is it right?
thanks!

 

[shannico]

Like need, require is one of those verbs which may hold an objective structure: i.e.

Subj+require+object+to+infinitive

I think it is a passive in that

Most tests require cells to be collected.

The only thing here is that the agent is implied by the contests (who is meant to collect these cells? Students, biologists or just anybody???)

Most tests + require+ (people/students/biologists)+to collect cells


Therefore, in this case the object becomes the "holder"of a passive structure,

Mosts tests+require+cells+to be collected (by people/students/biologists)

which may also be rendered by adding +ing straight after require and before the object.


If you google up "Most tests require cells to be collected" you'll come across other similar sentences e.g.

Most jurisdictions require samples to be collected...

which we can change into

Most jurisdictions require collecting samples...

Hope it works for you.

According to you," I require beating the dog," is right too. Is it right?
thanks![/QUOTE]

If anything
The dog requires beating/ The dog requires to be beaten (by who??)

That's what I meant...
Some masters require their dogs to be beaten (by their trainers) while training. (passive and objective construct)
Some masters require beating their dogs while training (passive only the agent is implied by context)

different to:

Some masters require dog trainers to beat their dogs while training (active and objective construct)

Hope it's clearer

 

[Raymott]

"The -ing form of a verb following require always has a passive meaning." is from a dictionary..But how do you think of the one : Most tests require collecting cells . Does collecting has a passive meaning here?
Thanks!　

I'm not convinced that you have a sentence in the passive voice if that's what you mean.
"Collecting" is a gerund.
"Most tests (subject) require (verb) collecting cells. (Direct object)" - Active voice sentence.
"Collecting cells is required by most tests." - Passive voice equivalent.

 

[notletrest]

According to you," I require beating the dog," is right too. Is it right?
thanks!

If anything
The dog requires beating/ The dog requires to be beaten (by who??)

That's what I meant...
Some masters require their dogs to be beaten (by their trainers) while training. (passive and objective construct)
Some masters require beating their dogs while training (passive only the agent is implied by context)

different to:

Some masters require dog trainers to beat their dogs while training (active and objective construct)

Hope it's clearer[/QUOTE]
I am sorry but I don't think "Some masters require beating their dogs while training (passive only the agent is implied by context)" is correct,after all.
Thanks for your concern!

 

[notletrest]

I'm not convinced that you have a sentence in the passive voice if that's what you mean.
"Collecting" is a gerund.
"Most tests (subject) require (verb) collecting cells. (Direct object)" - Active voice sentence.
"Collecting cells is required by most tests." - Passive voice equivalent.

I enjoy your good answer to my probolem very much! Thanks to 5jj,too.
Sorry that you haven't directly pointed "Most tests require collecting cells " is wrong.
I am ashamed the sentence should appear in the Chinese graduate student for master examination topic 2009.

 

[Tdol]

Sorry that you haven't directly pointed "Most tests require collecting cells " is wrong.
I am ashamed the sentence should appear in the Chinese graduate student for master examination topic 2009.

It isn't wrong for me.

 

[Raymott]

It isn't wrong for me.

Exactly; it's not wrong. But it's not in the passive voice, as was claimed - unless someone wants to argue that it is.

 

[5jj]

It seems to me that there is a fundamental difference between 'the dog needs beating’, and ‘training a dog requires beating it’.

I have just looked through a couple of hundred of the 900+ examples of [require] + verb+ing in COCA, and I could not see one that resembles ‘the dog requires beating’. They appear to be mainly of this type: “But any threat assessment requires making tough tradeoffs”.

One could argue that, as this last sentence could be paraphrased as “But any assessment requires tough trade-offs to be made”, it has a ‘passive meaning’. Equally, however, one could argue that, as it could be paraphrased as “But any assessment requires someone to make rough trade-offs, it has an ‘active meaning’. If we start explaining the meaning of one utterance by the structure of a paraphrase of it, we could claim that “John killed Peter” had a ‘passive meaning’ because it can be paraphrased as “Peter was killed by John”.


"Most tests require collecting cells" is not wrong but, as Raymott said, it is not passive voice. I would argue that there is no justification in claiming that it has 'passive meaning'.


I also feel that 'the dog requires beating' is not natural English.

 

[notletrest]

It seems to me that there is a fundamental difference between 'the dog needs beating’, and ‘training a dog requires beating it’.

I have just looked through a couple of hundred of the 900+ examples of [require] + verb+ing in COCA, and I could not see one that resembles ‘the dog requires beating’. They appear to be mainly of this type: “But any threat assessment requires making tough tradeoffs”.

One could argue that, as this last sentence could be paraphrased as “But any assessment requires tough trade-offs to be made”, it has a ‘passive meaning’. Equally, however, one could argue that, as it could be paraphrased as “But any assessment requires someone to make rough trade-offs, it has an ‘active meaning’. If we start explaining the meaning of one utterance by the structure of a paraphrase of it, we could claim that “John killed Peter” had a ‘passive meaning’ because it can be paraphrased as “Peter was killed by John”.


"Most tests require collecting cells" is not wrong but, as Raymott said, it is not passive voice. I would argue that there is no justification in claiming that it has 'passive meaning'.


I also feel that 'the dog requires beating' is not natural English.

The study of langwages is not playng magic. The strongest weapon is examples by famous wtiters.

 

[emsr2d2]

The study of langwages is not playng magic. The strongest weapon is examples by famous wtiters.

I think your keyboard is having some issues today. ;-)

 

[notletrest]

I think your keyboard is having some issues today. ;-)

Thanks for your concerns! I sincerely accept your criticism! I am sorry for my carelessness.