the + Adj. vs Adj. + people

[AlexAD]

Hello.

As I was reading an entry for a word in my dictionary, I came across this example:
'It's impossible to put a figure on the number of homeless people in London'.
And I just asked myself a question, what is the difference between homeless people and the homless?
By the way, it seems to be common case in that we can say the British or British people, the rich or rich people, etc. etc.

Do you feel any difference between those two forms?

Thanks, Alex.

 

[mxreader]

Hi AlexAD,

"the homeless" => article + noun
"homeless people" => Adj. + noun

 

[AlexAD]

May I beg to differ as according to the OALD 'homeless' serves as an adjective.

 

[5jj]

May I beg to differ as according to the OALD 'homeless' serves as an adjective.

2. (the homeless) noun [pl] people who have no home: helping the homeless.

OALD(6th edition), 2000

 

[AlexAD]

I didn't mean the homless, but homeless (without the).

 

[mxreader]

I think it's best to look at it from the structure.... where the word is used, then you can decide what it is used as. In my answer I am referring to the title of your post. ;-)

 

[BobK]

When referring to a disability, there is a PC tendency to object to the 'the X' form (on the grounds that it objectifies or excludes or pigeon-holes people so affected. Until the '70s or '80s it was quite normal to hear things like 'action to help the autistic' - today it's always 'action to help autistic people'.

b

 

[AlexAD]

So is there any difference regarding the original question?

 

[emsr2d2]

Your original statement could be phrased in two ways:

It's impossible to put a figure on the number of homeless people in London.
It's impossible to put a figure on the number of homeless in London.

You can also say:

It's impossible to count the homeless in London.
It's impossible to count the homeless people in London.

Effectively, they all mean the same. "The homeless" is simply a collective noun for all the homeless people in a city/country or the whole world, depending on the context. If you use "the number of" you can follow it simply with the word "homeless". If you don't use "the number of" then you need to say "the homeless" or "homeless people".

If I'm honest, I'm not sure that I'm quite clear exactly what your question is.

 

[5jj]

I didn't mean the homless, but homeless (without the).

So, I don't see why you 'begged to differ'. mxreader's post was short, but to the point.

 

[TheParser]

And I just asked myself a question, what is the difference between homeless people and the homless?

CAUTION: NOT A TEACHER


(1) English has a wonderful quality: you may often take an adjective, put the definite

article in front of it, and it then becomes a noun!

(2) Tom: I love poor people and hate rich people. ("poor" and "rich" = adjectives)

Mona: Listen, my friend. The poor are not necessarily good, and the rich are not

necessarily bad. Judge them as individuals! ("The poor" and "the rich" are nouns.)

(3) Here in my city, many homeless (adjective) people sleep on the sidewalks

day and night. The police cannot remove them. Why? Because in the United States

even the homeless (noun) have rights.

 

[AlexAD]

emsr2d2, thank you.
That's what I wanted to hear. There is no difference between the homeless and homless people. I guess we can say the same about the British and British people, can't we?

TheParser, thank you for being accurate and telling me what you have told.

But.. I still don't understand what's wrong with the title?
I wanted to hear was there any difference between:
1. the poor and poor people
2. the rich and rich people
3. the British and British people.
4. ...

I find it very straightforward that the generic template would be The + adjective
In the example 'the poor', 'the' - is an article, 'poor' is an adjective, 'the poor' is a noun.
and Adjective + people
In the example 'rich people', 'rich' is an adjective, 'people' is a noun.

I might be missing something, there might be something wrong with me :lol: but I can't also see the point

 

[TheParser]

I might be missing something, there might be something wrong with me :lol: but I can't also see the point

CAUTION: NOT A TEACHER


No! There is nothing wrong with you.

But there is something wrong with me, for I do not understand what the problem is.

You keep referring to "the title." Do you mean the title of your thread:

Re: the + Adj. vs Adj. + people.

 

[AlexAD]

Yes, I have been meaning the title of the post, 'the + Adj. vs Adj. + people'.
Sorry, I thought 'the title' would be enough. Should I have called it differently?

 

[TheParser]

Yes, I have been meaning the title of the post, 'the + Adj. vs Adj. + people'.
Sorry, I thought 'the title' would be enough. Should I have called it differently?

CAUTION: NOT A TEACHER


(1) No, "the title" is enough.

(2) What exactly is your question about the title?

(a) As far as I can see, there is nothing wrong with your title.

(i) Your title: The + adjective vs. Adjective + people.

(a) Example: The good vs. Good people.

(b) Are you possibly referring to the little unimportant "mistakes" in your title?

For example, you did not capitalize "The"; you did not put a period after "vs."

(3) Could you explain what concerns you have with the title of your thread?

 

[AlexAD]

Basically the title was a reduced form of the question I asked in the first message.
I usually try to be precise with the title of a thread, but I would never imagine that there would be so much attention to it

 

[emsr2d2]

So, in its simplest form, is your question:

Should I use "the homeless" or "homeless people"?

or is it:

Is there any difference between "the homeless" and "homeless people"?

 

[AlexAD]

Yes, emsr2d2. The latter is what I was meaning to ask.

And I just asked myself a question, what is the difference between homeless people and the homless?
...
Do you feel any difference between those two forms?

 

[emsr2d2]

Yes, emsr2d2. The latter is what I was meaning to ask.

And even with all the answers you have had up until now, including various examples, you are still not clear on that?

 

[AlexAD]

No. It was your first reply on this thread that got me an answer to my initial question.

After that I just wanted to know why some people said the title of this thread was wrong and I still can't see it

So if someone will try to explain that to me, that would be great.
If no, it will be OK as well. ;-)

Thanks you for your participation.