Though/Even

[keannu]

The anwer for this question is "Though" and the explanation is that "though" doesn't need any premise or prerequisite setences, while "even if" needs one. Is it true?
I seem to have seen that "though" and "even if" are interchangeable. But according to the explanation, does "even if" need something like accepted truths like the following?
A- She is gorgeous B - Even if she is gorgeous, she won't become an actress without excellent acting talent.

330-69
ex)Thanks to the computer and other new technologies, the English language is growing up by up to 20,000 words a year. Though/Even if the bulk of these new terms are scientific, technical, or of otherwise specialized application, hundreds of terms find their way into the main body of English each year...

 

[mathias_r]

-not a teacher-

Here is a link that seems to answer your question: "Is there any difference in meaning between even if and even though?"

 

[keannu]

I've seen that, I need a practical, real-life answer.

 

[bhaisahab]

I've seen that, I need a practical, real-life answer.

mathias-r's link seems to me to offer a pretty good explanation. In any case, it would be polite to thank him for his effort in finding it for you.

 

[keannu]

If the link's rule is absolute, I will follow it. But I seem to have heard that "even though" and "even if" are interchangeable in some cases. Is it a misconception or a mistake by people?
Anyway, for accepted truths, "even if" can be used.

 

[Chicken Sandwich]

But I seem to have heard that "even though" and "even if" are interchangeable in some cases. Is it a misconception or a mistake by people?

Can you think of a sentence in which "even if" and "even though" can be used interchangeably with no difference in meaning? I can't and I completely agree with the BBC that they are not interchangeable.

 

[keannu]

Accepted truth

A - She is gorgeous.
B - Even if(Even though) she is gorgeous, she can't become an actress without excellent acting talent.

 

[bhaisahab]

Accepted truth

A - She is gorgeous.
B - Even if(Even though) she is gorgeous, she can't become an actress without excellent acting talent.

Here, with "even though" B accepts that she is gorgeous. With "even if" B accepts the possibility that she may be gorgeous.

 

[keannu]

No, I don't think so. Depending on context, "Even if" can mean accepted truths or predictive conditional(possibility).

 

[Chicken Sandwich]

No, I don't think so. Depending on context, "Even if" can mean accepted truths or predictive conditional(possibility).

You're missing the point. bhaisahab did an excellent job of explaining the difference, but let me try to do it in a different way.

A: She is gorgeous.
B: Even if she is gorgeous, she can't become an actress without excellent acting talent.

Does B think that she is gorgeous? We don't know for sure. B only accepts the possibility that she is gorgeous.

A: She is gorgeous.
B: Even though she is gorgeous, she can't become an actress without excellent acting talent.

Does B think that she is gorgeous? Yes.

Can "even if" and "even though" be used interchangeably with no difference in meaning? No.

 

[keannu]

This is from 5jj's conditional material. I don't know if this can't be applied to "even if".

...................
5.3. Accepted Truths
In examples [1] If you heat ice, it melts, a general truth, and [2] If Andrea cooks, I wash up, a habitual act, the IF-clause action/state reported by the speaker was known before the reporting. In [3] If it’s ten o’clock already, then I’m late, the situation is different: the situation was unknown to the speaker until moments before the utterance. Indeed, such utterances are frequently preceded by another speaker providing the knowledge; in [3], that: It’s ten o’clock. In the subsequent conditional, if conveys a similar meaning to given that, accepting that. The whole conditional clause is sometimes replaced by some other expression with if: if [that is] so, if that is the case; or without if: that being so, in that case. A range of tenses and modals is possible:

13. [Speaker A: I have finished.]
Speaker B: You can go home if you have finished.
14. [Speaker A: Sue is working on the computer.]
Speaker B: If Sue is working on the computer, go to the library.
15. [Speaker A: The Lattins will drive you to the airport]
Speaker B: If the Lattins will drive me to the airport, I’ll be able to leave later.

 

[tzfujimino]

No, I don't think so. Depending on context, "Even if" can mean accepted truths or predictive conditional(possibility).

Hello, keannu.:-D
I understand your confusion. "even if..." and "even though..." are translated into exaclty the same Japanese expressions. So, the problem is that we (Japanese) tend to think they are interchangeable. Some teachers might actually say in their English classes, "'Even if' means... (in Japanese). There's also an expression 'even though', which means the same thing as 'even if' (in Japanese)." They are, in fact, not interchangeable. They are used differently.

Well, "if..." and "though..." are different, aren't they? So, it might be safer to think "even if..." and "even though..." are different. Don't you think so?:-D

"Even though she is gorgeous, she can't become..." basically means "Though she is gorgeous, she can't become..."
"even" puts some emphasis on it.
Please see: Merriam-Webster's Learner's Dictionary

I'd advise you to search some English sentences containing those expressions and compare them.
phrases containing even if
phrases containing even though

I hope you will be able to sort out your problems.:-D

 

[keannu]

I didn't say that in any case, the two are interchaneable. When "even if" is about predictive conditional, it's never so.
Like in this. "Even if he comes, we can't go" - I don't know if he comes or not(predictive)

But in factual conditional.
A : He came here.
B : Even if(Even though) he came here, we can't go
Do you get what I mean? If I am wrong, maybe "even if" is an exceptional case of factual conditional. Please read the material from 5jj carefully.

 

[Chicken Sandwich]

In science, a theory becomes "accepted truth" if the majority of scientists accepts it. That, however, doesn't mean that everyone accepts it, which is why your argument doesn't work.
Also, not note that scientists would never use the word "truth". They would rather use the word "theory".

Consider the following example. It's freezing, but since it only began freezing a couple of days ago, the river is covered by a thin layer of ice. Two people, a physicist and a non-physicist are arguing about whether it's a good idea to cross the river.

Physicist: If you step on the ice, your body will exert a downward force of XXX N (newton) and the ice will break. Crossing the river is not a good idea.

Non-physicist: Even if what you're saying is true, it's still worth a shot!

Even though what the physicist is saying might be the "accepted truth", that doesn't mean that the non-physicist will accept it. This is why "even though" and "even if" do not mean the same thing. Perhaps the non-physicist doesn't accepts his theory or the non-physicist is ignorant of physics in general or perhaps the non-physicist thinks that all of the current theories in physics are bogus. We don't know! The non-physicist merely accepts the possibillity that what the physicist is saying, is true.

 

[tzfujimino]

"Even if he comes, we can't go" - I don't know if he comes or not(predictive)

"Even if(Even though) he came here, we can't go"

Hello, again.:-D
I agree with you on the first one, but I'm not sure if "Even if he came here, we can't go." really works.
I feel "Even though he has come/arrived? here, we can't go." is correct.
Let's wait for 5jj to respond.

 

[Chicken Sandwich]

But in factual conditional.
A : He came here.
B : Even if(Even though) he came here, we can't go

This whole exchange with "even if" makes little sense to me. If it is already clearly establsihed that "he" has arrived at a particular place (perhaps by "his" physical perecense), it wouldn't make any sense to use "even if", because it is already clearly establshied that "he" is already here. "Even if" allows for the possibility that "he" hasn't arrived, which is clearly not the case.

 

[5jj]

This is from 5jj's conditional material. I don't know if this can't be applied to "even if".

No, it can't. 'Even if' does not mean the same as 'if'.

 

[keannu]

Sorry for everyone! I've been too much obssessed with the factual conditional rule of "if" and tried to extend its application to even "even if", but I realized it's wrong by the help of 5jj and others.
It's been quite short since I came to know about factual conditonal - about 7 months - and it's been quite useful to interprete many conditionals - especially accepted truths. Okay, "even if" doesn't apply in accepted truths - it's just a predictive conditional.
Thanks a lot!!!

 

[5jj]

Some different examples. The speakers are people who may be prejudiced against Elbonians.

A: If my son married an Elbonian, I would shoot him. Yup, he's prejudiced. His son is not married to an Elbonian and, if he wants to stay alive, this situation will continue.

B: Even if my son married an Elbonian I would shoot him. Oops. This speaker is not prejudiced (against Elbonians). He wants to shoot his son, but he appears to have positive feelings towards Elbonians. It does not seem very likely that his son will marry an Elbonian.

C: Although my son married an Elbonian, I will shoot him. This speaker is a bit like B. He doesn't seem to care much for his son, but he likes Elbonians. His son should take out life insurance soon, for the sake of his soon-to-be widow.

D: Even though my son married an Elbonian, I will shoot him. This speaker is more positive about Elbonians than C. His feelings about Elbonians are similar to those of speaker B. The difference is that speaker B's son has not married an Elbonian, and the prospect of this is not presented as particularly great. Speaker D's son has married an Elbonian. It will, unfortunately, not save his life.