Consonant clusters nt, nd, rt and rd‏. (part II)

[The apprentice]

Dear teachers and members:


II° - Another similar case in american English (AmE), like in the first part (part I). It is when the consonant cluster RT (an alviolar approximant plus or followed by an alviolar stop) is intervocalic and the second vowel is unstressed, the voiceless alveolar stop T is lost and the voiced alveolar approximant R becomes an approximant retroflex, thus being the only one pronounced; sounding as follows:


a) Important / ɪmˈpɔrənt /, party / ˈpɑrɪ /, article / ˈɑrɪkəl /, participle / ˈpɑrəsɪpəl /, started / stɑrɪd /.


b) It was clear to me / ɪt wəz klɪər ə mi/, I swear to God / aɪ swɛər ə ɡɒd /; She likes the imported one / ʃi laɪks ðə ɪmˈpɔrɪd wʌn /; you wish to start a business/ ju wɪʃ tə stɑr ə ˈbɪznɪs /.



OBSERVANCE:


1) This words or sentences containing this cluster may be pronounced either as RT or as R in AmE.

2) Does this process occur because these consonants share the same place of articulation (the alveolar ridge), because one is voiced and the other is voiceless or for what another reason?


3) I Found that this does not happen when the consonant cluster RT is followed by the gerund form ING in some verbs like:


Courting / kɔrtɪŋ /, skirting /skɜrtɪŋ /, reverting / rɪvɜrtɪŋ /, alerting / əˈlɜrtɪŋ /.


4) I also found this does not happen in some verbs when they are in the past or past participle tenses; is this because of the vowel sounds / ɜr/ or another reason?


Deserted / dɪˈzɜrtɪd /,perverted / pərˈvɜrtɪd/, skirted /skɜrtɪd /, alerting / əˈlɜrtɪd/.


5) Can this process also occur in the case of the voiced consonant cluster RD?; sounding as:


a) Affordable / əˈfɔrəbəl/, according / əˈkɔrɪŋ /, regarding / rɪˈɡɑrɪŋ/, awarded /əˈwɔrɪd/, order / ˈɔrər /


b) I figured it out / aɪ ˈfɪɡjər ər aʊt/; we had to learn to pronounce / wi hər ə lɜrn tə prənaʊns /


Your assistance and help will be deeply appreciated in this matter.


Sincerely,



The Apprentice.

 

[Raymott]

This is bizarre. Where in America do they talk like this?

 

[The apprentice]

Hi, Raymott:

Raymott, you're not supposed to be american because I'm pretty sure this is common in AmE, please check this video:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AY6h804boFs


1°) From 3:24 to 3: 29 '' They're been working hard to make college more affordable for all young people in this country ''. She pronounces the consonant cluster RD in the word AFFORDABLE like that:

Affordable / əˈfɔːrəbəl /

2°) From 3: 44 to 3:48 '' I want you to listen to this ''. She pronounces the NT consonant cluster like that:

Listen to this / ˈlɪsən ə ðɪs /

3°) From 6:44 to 6:47 '' So, it was clear to me ''. She pronounces the RT consonant cluster like that:

/ səʊ, ɪt wəz klɪər ə miː /

4°) From 7:42 to 7:45 '' Most importantly ''. She pronounces the RT consonant cluster like that:

Importantly /ɪmˈpɔːrəntlɪ/


This is what I mean Raymott.


Regards,


The Apprentice.

 

[N Senbei]

Hello The Apprentice,

Yes, a /t/ in an intervocalic NT cluster can sometimes be dropped in an American accent, but I’ve never heard of your RT/D thing, and your phonetic transcriptions of Michelle Obama’s speech are, I’m sorry but I think, simply wrong.

For example, "affordable" is /əfɔːɚɾəbl/, and "clear to" is /klɪɚ ɾə/.

An /r/, or more precisely an r-colored vowel /ɚ/, is still there without any change, and /t/ or /d/ is just turned into a famous American alveolar tap /ɾ/. It's pretty much textbook.
If you see a waveform of those words, you can find a brief closure before the /ɾ/.
And if you see a spectrogram of those words, you can find the /r/ (or /ɚ/) is still there (the third formant drops at an /r/).

 

[The apprentice]

​Thank you N Senbei for replying;


Your explanation is very good, but help me in this:

Regarding the consonant clusters RT and RD in AmE, I have also heard them like R, for example:

1° - (RT) I was in an party / aɪ wəz ɪn ə ˈpɑːrɪ /, Frank Sinatra was a good artist / fræŋk sɪˈnɑːtrə wəz ə ɡʊd ˈɑːrɪst /, (here there is a flap d between GOOD and ARTIST), I started to draw when I was 6 / aɪ stɑːrɪd tə drɔː hwɛn aɪ wəz sɪks/.

2° - (RD) they were recording their voice / ðeɪ wər rɪˈkɔːrɪŋ ðɛər vɔɪs /, He was awarded for his philantropic works / hiː wəz əˈwɔːrɪd fər hɪz fɪlənˈθrɒpɪk wɜːrks /, I'm studying phonetics and phonology in order to learn pronunciation / aɪm ˈstʌdɪŋ fəˈnɛtɪks ən fəˈnɒlədʒi ɪn ˈɔːrər tə lɜːrn prəˌnʌnsɪˈeɪʃən/.

a) In the sentence: It was clear to me / ɪt wəz klɪər tə miː/, I consider that the /r/ in CLEAR and the /t/ in TO make the consonant cluster RT when linked.

b) In this sentence: I want you to know /aɪ wɒnt jʊ tə nəʊ/ ( from 7:08 to 7:11 in Michelle Obama Speech). I consider that here there is an assimilation between the plosive sound t and the simi vowel or semi consonant sound y, becoming into an africate sound /tʃ /


I would also like to know how to join isolated sound into one sound, as in; I want you to know / aɪwɒntʃjʊ tənəʊ/, Here I think that the thought group '' I want you to know '' has two sounds.


Any further explanation will be deeply appreciated.

Sincerely,



The Apprentice.

 

[5jj]

I agree with N Senbei, "your phonetic transcriptions of Michelle Obama’s speech are, I’m sorry but I think, simply wrong." Read N Senbei's post again, The Apprentice. The post is talking about the sound produced, not what people might think they hear.

 

[The apprentice]

Thaks a lot for your reply 5jj.


Regards.


The Apprentice

 

[N Senbei]

Hello The Apprentice,

In an American accent, “/ɚ/ + /t/ + vowel” or “/ɚ/ + /d/ + vowel” can become “/ɚ/ + /ɾ/ + vowel” and this applies to all of your examples.

party /pɑːɚti/ → / pɑːɚɾi /
artist /ɑːɚtɪst/ → /ɑːɚɾɪst/
started /stɑːɚtɪd/ → /stɑːɚɾɪd/
recording /ɹɪkɔːɚdɪŋ/ → /ɹɪkɔːɚɾɪŋ/
awarded /əwɔːɚdɪd / → /əwɔːɚɾɪd /
order /ɔːɚdɚ/ → /ɔːɚɾɚ/
(You can think /r/, /ɚ/ and /ɹ/ are the same things here.)

And as I mentioned in the earlier post, “clear to me” is pronounced as /klɪɚ ɾə mi/ in that video.
By checking the waveforms and spectrogram, you can see “/ɚ/ + closure + /ɾ/.”



This is pure conjecture, but some Spanish speaking people might have some difficulty distinguishing an English /r/ from an alveolar tap /ɾ/, because their mother tongue has an alveolar tap /ɾ/ as their ordinary “r.”

 

[The apprentice]

Okay N Sebei:


Now I understand in your last statement what I mean. I don't think I have any problem with intervocalic alveolar /t/ and /d/ when they become flap/tap; maybe my problem is with the clusters /rt/ and /rd/, because I don't know anything about the /ɚ/ sound - which occurs in AmE - and I'm a Spanish speaker as you already said.

Here in this video from 11:07 to 11:09 '' who was finally awarded ''. / huː wəz ˈfaɪnəlɪ əˈwɔːrɪd /. He says the word awarded this way.

President Obama Speaks at the 2013 Tribal Nations Conference - YouTube


Yours truly,




The Apprentice.

 

[N Senbei]

It's the same.
He pronounces "awarded" as /əwɔːɚɾɪd/ in that video.
A drop of the third formant for an /ɚ/, a brief closure, and then a tapping.

 

[Raymott]

Hi, Raymott:

Raymott, you're not supposed to be american because I'm pretty sure this is common in AmE, please check this video:
First Lady Michelle Obama Speaks on The Power of Education - YouTube

Sorry, I didn't realise you were using /r/ for a flap.
I'm not American, but this has nothing to do with how commonly you think something exists in AmE. I'm not supposed to be American because I make no secret of being Australian; it's in my profile.

 

[The apprentice]

Thanks N Senbei:

Are you an English linguist?

Respectfully,


The Apprentice

 

[The apprentice]

Thanks again N Senbei:

I have heard about '' Schwa plus /r/ sound '', maybe it is the same, but your explanation was pretty instructive to me. I deeply appreciate it.

Regards,


The Apprentice

 

[The apprentice]

Dear Senbei:

Where did you find the above spectograph online?

 

[N Senbei]

Hello,

Are you an english linguist?

Sorry, I’m not a linguist or anything. I’m just a learner who happens to be interested in phonetics.

Where did you find the above spectograph online?

I used a program called “Praat” to generate spectrograms. You can download it for free from: http://www.fon.hum.uva.nl/praat/

 

[The apprentice]

Thank you N Senbei:

I will download it. I'm interested in having a software like that; it will help me in knowing about sounds and consequently in improving mine.

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

Hi, apprentice!

I'm a 62-year-old American, and I can tell you with absolute certainty that you're hearing it wrong. It's not your fault. The video you're using has low-quality audio. Ms. Obama's diction is good, and she isn't skipping all those Ts and Ds. She's hitting some of them quickly and softly, but they're there.

The rules you're creating simply do not exist in American English. It's true that we do often (of'en!) skip Ts. And unlike the British, we soften them into Ds. But we don't do it in the ways you're describing.

It's good that you're puzzling this out, though. Studying the differences among different English-speaking cultures can be a life-long pursuit. Keep listening. You'll get there!

Charlie