sounds of word you and letter U

[MikeNewYork]

The first correct thing you've written in the thread Mike.

LOL! In your opinion. I admit I am wrong when I am wrong. We just have a different view of what a vowel sound is. That does not make you right. Words rhyme because of the vowel sounds. That has always been true. If you don't like the word "pure" so be it.

 

[probus]

Yes, "too" and "you" rhyme.

You are confusing how the name of the letter "U" is said with the sound that the letter makes. The sound it makes is a "pure vowel." If we say "true" we do not insert a "y" consonant sound in there.

It is only when we say the name of the letter that we insert a "y" of sorts.

Ignoring the subsequent controversy and coming back to SoothingDave's effort to help the OP, it is a question of accent. In AmE we do not "insert a y" as SoothingDave puts it. For us, a tube is a toob. But in London, The Tube is the tyube.

I hope that makes sense, without phonetic symbols. If not, let me know and I will try to do phonetic symbols.

 

[N Senbei]

First, does word you rhyme with word too because the pronunciation of word you consists of a consonant sound /y/ and a vowel sound /oo/ and that of word too consists of a consonant sound /t/ and a vowel sound /oo/?

NOT A TEACHER

Hello TaiwanPofLee,

I think the answer to your question depends on whether or not you consider /ju:/ a single vowel-unit. Since /j/ is a consonant sound, regarding /ju:/ as a single vowel-unit (diphthong) may sound weird to you, but it’s not that uncommon. Actually a lot of textbooks treat /ju/ NOT as two phonemes (a sequence of a consonant phoneme /j/ and a vowel phoneme /u:/), but as a single diphthongal phoneme. And it seems to be justifiable from a historical point of view. In Late Middle English, the vowels in “new” and “dew” were pronounced like /iu/ and /eu/ respectively, and these diphthongs gradually merged into /ju/.
So, if you regard /ju:/ as just a sequence of a consonant /j/ and a vowel /u:/, the answer is “yes,” but if you regard /ju:/ as a single diphthong, the answer is most likely “no,” because “too” and “you” have different vowels (/u:/ and /ju:/).

 

[TaiwanPofLee]

Thank you for your response, N Senbei.

What's on my mind is that 1) word you rhymes with word too, and 2) letter U is not a pure vowel like letter A, E, I or O because its pronunciation is /y/+/oo/, /y/ being a consonant.

 

[Raymott]

Ignoring the subsequent controversy and coming back to SoothingDave's effort to help the OP, it is a question of accent. In AmE we do not "insert a y" as SoothingDave puts it. For us, a tube is a toob. But in London, The Tube is the tyube.

The OP has persisted in asking about the sound of the name of the letter 'U'.
Do you call it 'oo'?

 

[Raymott]

I admit I am wrong when I am wrong.

I can't ever recall it.
You don't know what a pure vowel is, do you Mike? Are you even slightly ashamed at misleading students like this? When someone contradicts you by giving a correct answer that differs from yours, do you ever wonder whether they might be right? That is, for whatever reason (here, your weakness in phonetics), you could be wrong?
This bravado of persisting in being 'right' when you're not can only drag down the quality of the teaching here.

 

[Tdol]

A schoolchild I spoke to the other day (UK school) said she is learning her "a-buh-kuh". The "a" sounded like the "a" in "bat" and the "b" and "c" were simply the sounds from the first letter of "bat" and "cat" respectively. She did not seem to know the "names" of the letters (ay, bee, see).

That is what I meant- I was surprised the first time I heard it.

 

[Tdol]

If the tongue, lips,etc move, it's a dipthong to the IPA, so some sounds that many would consider single sounds are not to them. I would not regard /æ/ as in 'BAT' as a dipthong, but I do think that things like /eɪ/ as in 'bake' are.

Things are heating up here. Could we turn it down a bit? Thanks.

 

[Raymott]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRzF2YgxC9I

 

[MikeNewYork]

Ray, we are talking about different things. It appears that you don't know that. I am talking about vowel sounds. You are talking about phonetic symbols. Phonetic symbols mean nothing to the vast majority of the population.

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

First, does word you rhyme with word too because the pronunciation of word you consists of a consonant sound /y/ and a vowel sound /oo/ and that of word too consists of a consonant sound /t/ and a vowel sound /oo/? And second, is letter U not a pure vowel letter like letter A, E, I or O because the pronunciation of letter U is the same as that of word you?

Hey, TPL!

Don't worry about Ray and Mike, they just like to spar. To answer your question, the sound of U as a letter of the alphabet is exactly the same as the word you in standard English. We pronounce them both yoo.

However, while all English-speaking people pronounce the alphabet letter U in almost the same way, there are many regional accents that pronounce you in different ways. Here in the U.S., you can find people who pronounce it ya, yuh, yeh, or yih.

Hope that helps!

cb

 

[N Senbei]

Thank you for your response, N Senbei.

What's on my mind is that 1) word you rhymes with word too, and 2) letter U is not a pure vowel like letter A, E, I or O because its pronunciation is /y/+/oo/, /y/ being a consonant.

So, you are not a big fan of a diphthongal phoneme /ju:/. That’s perfectly OK. If you regard /ju:/ as a consonant phoneme /j/ + a vowel phoneme /u:/, then yes, “you” rhymes with “too,” and unlike “long A”(/eɪ/), “long E”(/i:/), “long I”(/aɪ/), or “long O”(/oʊ/), the “long U” sound contains a consonant phoneme.

 

[Tdol]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRzF2YgxC9I

I am not sure whether the link was an response to my post, but they do give /æ/ as a short vowel sound.

 

[Tdol]

Phonetic symbols mean nothing to the vast majority of the population.

True, but this is a question about phonetics.

 

[TaiwanPofLee]

So, you are not a big fan of a diphthongal phoneme /ju:/. That’s perfectly OK. If you regard /ju:/ as a consonant phoneme /j/ + a vowel phoneme /u:/, then yes, “you” rhymes with “too,” and unlike “long A”(/eɪ/), “long E”(/i:/), “long I”(/aɪ/), or “long O”(/oʊ/), the “long U” sound contains a consonant phoneme.

Thank you for your response, N Senbai.

My rough knowledge of Italian, Spanish and German is that U is a monothong, pronouncing something like 'u' as in word put. And, I'm thinking the American people may change their pronunciaion of the name of the alphabet letter U from /ju:/ to /u:/ someday as they have changed the UK pronunciaion of the name of the alphabet letter Z. I'm talking about received "standard", not regional, UK and USA English pronunciation, of course.

As a supplement, I regard /ju:/ as a phoneme, and I am interested in what are the two vowels it contains since it is a diphthong,. The same case with alphabet letters A, I, and O.

 

[TaiwanPofLee]

Yes, "too" and "you" rhyme.

You are confusing how the name of the letter "U" is said with the sound that the letter makes. The sound it makes is a "pure vowel." If we say "true" we do not insert a "y" consonant sound in there.

It is only when we say the name of the letter that we insert a "y" of sorts.

But you insert a "y" of sorts when you say "cute", don't you?

My question is about whether the pronunciation of the name of the alphabet letter U contains a consonant sound.

 

[Roman55]

By 'pure vowel' I mean not consisting of a consonant sound. A, E, I, and O are pure vowels.

And, by 'letter' I mean the alphabetical letter, and 'letter U' is the alphabetical letter U, 'letter A' is the alphabetical letter A, and so on.

I was in the opinion that the alphabetical letter U is pronounced as /iu:/ and the word you is pronounced as /yu:/ and the two pronunciations are not the same.

By saying this you have confused the issue from the start. This forum is called 'Pronunciation and Phonetics. You can't invent a new definition of 'pure vowel' and expect us all to be talking about the same thing.

Charlie Bernstein said it in #31 and I said it in another virtually identical thread of yours; the pronunciations of the letter U and the word you are indistiguishable.

 

[Raymott]

Don't worry about Ray and Mike, they just like to spar.

I'm sorry, Charlie, but do we know each other? I can assure you that the purpose of my posts is to give accurate information, and to challenge incorrect information. I certainly don't appreciate relative newbies telling students not to "worry about me".

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

But you insert a "y" of sorts when you say "cute", don't you?

My question is about whether the pronunciation of the name of the alphabet letter U contains a consonant sound.

That wasn't your original question. You didn't ask how cute is pronounced. You asked how the word you and the letter U are pronounced.

The letter E at the end of a word is usually silent. It usually means that the vowel before it should be pronounced like the alphabet letter.

Cute follows that usual practice. It ends with a silent E, so it's pronounced kyoot, voicing the full letter U.

It's called a long vowel.

Yes, the Y is used as a consonant in the word you. But there is no Y in the letter U. It's spelled with just one letter: U, pronounced yoo, just like the word you.

So what? REMEMBER: In English, spelling and pronunciation are two different things!

Remember also that there are no pure or impure vowels. There are just vowels. Even the letter Y either is or isn't a vowel, depending on the word it's in. It is never partly vowel and partly consonant. In myself, it's a vowel. In Monday, it's a consonant. Purely!

Hope that helps.

 

[TaiwanPofLee]

Hi Charlie!

The statement of the second part of my question implies that I regard the pronunciation of letter U as the same as that of word you, and wonder if the pronunciation of letter U is therefore not a "pure vowel" letter like letter A, E, I or O because it contains a consonant sound /y/ while A, E, I or O doesn't contain a consonant sound.