since + point in time

[Tae-Bbong-E]

Before asking you about the subject: since + point in time, I have looked the usage of it up in this forum.
So my main question is that the following patterns & sentences are possible or not if "since + point in time" does not have to be a noun.


• since + conjunction + clause.

I have been doing this since before you were born - from Movie Blade 1 subtitle.
I have been doing this since after you were born​

• since + clause.

I have been doing this since I was born - from Movie Zootopia subtitle.​

• since + noun

I have lived here since the war.​

• since + Prepositional phrase

I have done this since before your birth​

I have don this since after your birth.​

The reason behind my questions is that I read the link below.
+++++ Quote +++++
https://www.usingenglish.com/forum/threads/133774-since-before

You are right in your since + point in time, but the the point(or period) in time does not have to be a noun, as shown in the following:


I have lived here since...


... the war
... before the war
... the war ended
... I left school
... 1945.
+++++ Unquote +++++

 

[GoesStation]

After by itself doesn't work. Since has to be followed by a somewhat specific time. "Before the war" is a time which ended when the war began; without a modifier, "After the war" includes all time from the end of the war to this instant.

You can fix this with an adverb: since just after the war, for example.

 

[Tae-Bbong-E]

After by itself doesn't work. Since has to be followed by a somewhat specific time. "Before the war" is a time which ended when the war began; without a modifier, "After the war" includes all time from the end of the war to this instant.

You can fix this with an adverb: since just after the war, for example.

Thank you for your reply.
Meanwhile I have searched <since + after> through Ludwig.
As you can see below, there are many cases using <since + after> even by The New York Times.
Anyway, to be exact, I have to use an adverb like just or something, don't I?

https://ludwig.guru/s/since+after
"I've been suffering a long time, since after the earthquake," he said. - The New Yorker

One young man was killed inside the club in 1997, and several have been shot since after leaving it - The Economist

"I've been suffering a long time, since after the earthquake," he said. - The New Yorker

 

[GoesStation]

The New York Times excerpt is from extemporaneous speech. People often make logical or grammatical errors when talking.

The Economists extract looks like an editing error.

 

[teechar]

Thank you for your reply.

You can click Thank/Like to thank someone on the forum.

Meanwhile I have searched for "since after" through Ludwig.
As you can see below, there are many cases using "since after", even by The New York Times.
Anyway, to be exact, I have to use an adverb like just or something, don't I?

It's not about the adverb, but rather it's about ensuring that "since" refers to a point in time (not a duration).

https://ludwig.guru/s/since+after
"I've been suffering a long time, since after the earthquake," he said. - The New Yorker

The suffering started since the end of the earthquake.

One young man was killed inside the club in 1997, and several [have been shot since] after leaving it.

You misread that sentence. It means: since that incident in 1997, several people have been shot after leaving the club.

"I've been suffering a long time, since after the earthquake," he said. - The New Yorker

That's the same as the first!

 

[Tae-Bbong-E]

It's not about the adverb, but rather it's about ensuring that "since" refers to a point in time (not a duration).

In the meantime, I searched for some other postings.
https://www.englishforums.com/English/SinceAfter/qcxbd/post.htm
https://forum.wordreference.com/threads/since-after.2456198/
https://forum.thefreedictionary.com...uch-a-thing-as--since-after--in-English-.aspx

Now, I've got to know why you said "just" or "right" should be put between since and after.

I mean, "before" by itself can be a point in time - i.e. <before the war>. As Goestation said, <before the war> is a time which ended when the war began.
Thus, the following sentence is possible, I think.

e.g.)
I have been doing this since before the war.
I have been doing this since before the war broke out.​

By contrast, "after" couldn't be a point in time - i.e. <after the war>. Maybe a certain sentence using <since after the war> is not good without a modifier. Moreover, it sounds awkward.

e.g.)
Today is Wednesday. The war broke out last Sunday;

I have been doing this since the war broke out. = I have been doing this since Sunday.

I have been doing this since after the war broke out = I have been doing this since Monday or Tuesday. Actually this sentence can't convey that I have been doing this since Sunday.​

Therefore, in order to have meaning of a point in time, the modifier such as "just" or "right" should be used together like "since just/right after ~".
Otherwise, I might as well use "after" or "since", not both because of duplication.
That is why you said "it[=just]'s about ensuring that "since" refers to a point in time (not a duration)".

e.g.)​

I have been doing this since just/right after the war broke out. = I have been doing this since Sunday.
​