[Vocabulary] to engage various activities

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englishhobby

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Can I say 'Learn more about your students through engaging various activities'?
Or is it better to say 'Learn more about your students through engaging them in various activities'?
 

emsr2d2

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Can I say 'Learn more about your students through engaging various activities'? No.
Or is it better to say 'Learn more about your students through engaging them in various activities'? No.

Neither is correct. For a start, you need to say "by engaging".

I wouldn't use "engaging them". I'd say "Learn more about your students by encouraging them to engage in activities in which they reveal interesting facts about themselves". If you're going to say that an activity will help you learn more about your students, you need to explain how that's going to happen.
 

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I would say learn more about the students by engaging with them in various school activities.
 

Tdol

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Various doesn't add much to the sentence for me- it's too vague.
 

englishhobby

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... engaging with them in various school activities.
What does 'to engage with someone' mean? Does it mean 'to encourage someone (to take part in some activity)'?
 

englishhobby

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jutfrank

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Can I say 'Learn more about your students through engaging various activities'?

No, that doesn't make sense. Used transitively, the object of the verb has to be students, not various activities. You can't engage an activity, but you can engage people. Teachers talk about engaging their students all the time.

Or is it better to say 'Learn more about your students through engaging them in various activities'?

Yes, the highlighted part here is correct. The object them is the students.

However, there are two concerns I have. First, I also think you mean to say by instead of through. Second, the whole thought doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. How is it that engaging your students is a way to learn about them? What do you mean?


Note: Rereading the thread, especially tedmc's correction in post #3, I see that englishhobby may be trying to use the pattern engage with somebody/something rather than engage somebody in something, so I'll try to explain the difference within the context of teaching:

As a teacher, one of your main aims is to engage your students. That basically means that you give them tasks to do that they are interested in so they don't get bored. If you do that well, then the students are engaging with the task. If they are engaging with the task, then they are engaged in whatever activity it is that the task requires them to do.
 
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englishhobby

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As a teacher, one of your main aims is to engage your students. That basically means that you give them tasks to do that they are interested in so they don't get bored. If you do that well, then the students are engaging with the task. If they are engaging with the task, then they are engaged in whatever activity it is that the task requires them to do.
Thank you, yes, I do need to know how to use the verb 'to engage' in phrases (collocations) correctly. (The part about 'learning more about students' does not matter a lot for my question). I have also noticed that in most of your examples the agent is not the teacher, but the students. So the verb 'to engage' means 'to become interested' in your examples, right?
As for 'to engage someone in an activity', it means 'to make someone take part in an activity with great interest', is that right?
Thanks to your explanations, I understand now that students can engage in an activity themselves, not just 'be engaged by the teacher'.

Still, some vague points for me remain. You are right, I am not quite aware of the difference between 'to engage with the task' and 'to engage in an activity', especially in sentences where the teacher is the agent (as in 'to engage someone with the task' and 'to engage someone in an activity'). Are they interchangeable in the following sentence?
The teacher managed to engage the students with the task / in the activity / in the task / with the activity.
 
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jutfrank

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I have also noticed that in most of your examples the agent is not the teacher, but the students. So the verb 'to engage' means 'to become interested' in your examples, right?

In a sense, yes, that's right, but you can understand the word better as having a basic sense of 'locking into something'. Here are three ways to show this basic sense:

1) When I used to play rugby, the referee would shout "Engage!", whereupon each team would lock itself into the other to form the scrum. One team engages with another. The two teams engage.

2) In a set of gears, when one cog interlocks another, we say the gears have engaged.

3) Before marriage, a couple is engaged when they become locked into a marriage betrothal.

You can see that the verb can be used in two ways:

a) A engages with B
b) A and B engage.

(An exception to the use of with is when talking about marriage, where we say engaged to.)

As for 'to engage someone in an activity', it means 'to make someone take part in an activity with great interest', is that right?

Basically, yes.

Still, some vague points for me remain. You are right, I am not quite aware of the difference between 'to engage with the task' and 'to engage in an activity'

I hope I've answered your question about the use of engage with above. As for engage in an activity, I think the best way of understanding this is that the PP 'in an activity' expresses the context of the engagement rather than the thing they're interlocking with. So if students are engaged in the lesson or engaged in your brilliant activity, they are not so much interlocking with the lesson or the activity itself, but rather with the particular task, or speaking partner, or problem, or whatever it is that forms the context. Another way to put this is with the expression 'engage with someone in a fight'. The fight is the context.

So as for your final question, I suggest you say The teacher engaged the students in the activity (not with) because the activity is the context, not the thing they're interlocking with.
 
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