Hi help me Moby Dick

[Mad-ox]

Take for example, Robinson Crusoe by Defoe. The lack of women is obvious here, too. But regarding this book, critics suggested that Defoe saw women, romantic love as an obstacle to economic advancement. And I wonder if this idea was applied by Melville, too.!?

[apex2000]

There is no discrimination, sexual or otherwise. There is too much effort put into trying to second guess authors. They are story tellers with no other deep, psychological intentions in the main run of books.
The same 'analysis' of the works by many old masters is subject to much discussion, whereas what most of them were doing was simply painting what they saw (or the way they saw it) and not trying to be pseudo psychologists and paint something with a hidden meaning.

[Mad-ox]

All famous books have hidden meanings! Let's take for example two very simple novels "Alice in Wonderland" by Lewis Carroll or "Gulliver's Travels" by Johnatan Swift. Apparently, these are books for children but, in fact, the authors use allegory in order to critisize the society they were brought up and participated in.

[apex2000]

Originally Posted by Mad-ox

All famous books have hidden meanings! Let's take for example two very simple novels "Alice in Wonderland" by Lewis Carroll or "Gulliver's Travels" by Johnatan Swift. Apparently, these are books for children but, in fact, the authors use allegory in order to critisize the society they were brought up and participated in.

Yes, this is quite clear and was the authors' intention. This is quite different to all those cases where critics and others try to put another meaning to what has been written. It is all conjecture as there is no evidence that the authors were writing anything other than straightforward fiction.

[Mad-ox]

hi,

I totally agree with you. Many times or, who knows, maybe, most of the times, authors just put down information in which they may mention about, say, rain, umbrella, cat, colors etc without thinking or intending to be symbols; and we as readers want to interpret everything. However, NOTHING is accidental.


Just a rethorical question: how can we know what was in Herman Melville's mind when he was writing his masterpiece. Obviously, there is no answer, but one should be one to many interpretation.

Madox

[apex2000]

Originally Posted by Mad-ox

[color="Blue"]However, NOTHING is accidental.
Just a rethorical question: how can we know what was in Herman Melville's mind when he was writing his masterpiece. Obviously, there is no answer, but one should be one to many interpretation.

I cannot follow you when you state 'nothing is accidental'. If you happened to be driving along a road when a tree collapsed, crushing your car, would you not agree that that was an accident?

No, you are right that we cannot know what was in the mind of the author when writing, although most authors find it hard enough to write their story without trying to be 'understood' in some mysterious way. Do you seriously believe that all writing is produced with hidden meaning?

[Anglika]

I wonder why you feel it is so necessary for Melville to include female characters? He largely wrote about sailors and their world in an era when women did not set out to mimic men. He is interested in the interactions of his male characters and was well aware that he was not particularly good at writing about women.

[Mad-ox]

Originally Posted by apex2000

I cannot follow you when you state 'nothing is accidental'. If you happened to be driving along a road when a tree collapsed, crushing your car, would you not agree that that was an accident?

The fact that, let's say, a tree collapses on somebody, it can be explained by Karma. Nothing is accidental. We all have to learn from everything. And here I would like to quot Abraham Lincoln: "If I do good, I feel good. If I do bad, I feel bad. that's my religion." In other words If you make good you receive good and vice versa. So If a tree collapsed on you cartainly you did something wrong in the past. Thus, everything has a purpose. And I repet myself: NOTHING IS ACCIDENTAL


Madox

[Mad-ox]

Originally Posted by Anglika

I wonder why you feel it is so necessary for Melville to include female characters? He largely wrote about sailors and their world in an era when women did not set out to mimic men. He is interested in the interactions of his male characters and was well aware that he was not particularly good at writing about women.

I do not feel it but I simply asked the question. It is well known that at the the time the novel was written, women were expected to be submissive and domestic, and perhaps religious. They were expelled from all activities. That's why I supposed that Melville had the same aim.

Whaling was of course a strictly male enterprise, but what consequences may be said to follow from the absence of women from this world? How would you make sense, in this context, of Ahab's deformity?


Madox

[Anglika]

Nothing. I do not feel any lack of feminine or female presence in Melville's books. It is of no relevance to the narrative or its content. To seek to explain this in terms of modern views is trying to impose on a writer something that is alien to his nature.

It is also not true that women were "expelled from all activities". In real life, women were very much involved in activities of all kinds. It is those of the aristocratic or rising middle classes who were constrained by custom and social rules, and even there, if one looks, there are notable exceptions.