charismatic cars

[GeneD]

This is an exercise from a book written by a non-native English speaking writer.

In an era when family cars are about as charismatic as fridges, Volkswagen has taken the most successful car of all time, the 'Beetle', back to the drawing board and given it a futuristic look.

Can cars or fridges be charismatic in English?

 

[teechar]

No. Ordinarily, neither cars nor fridges are described as being charismatic. Here, the author is making a wry/sarcastic comment by use of that literary device (personification).

 

[Tdol]

It works in this context.

 

[jutfrank]

According to the popular BBC television automobile review show Top Gear, as well as to the writer of this example sentence, cars can have charisma.

 

[Tdol]

Charismatic as fridges does sound like something Jeremy Clarkson would say.

 

[GeneD]

Does 'charismatic' in the context mean 'so cool that it becomes irresistible to many people'?

What I still can't understand is why fridges are charismatic. And why this comparison between cars and fridges? Why not washing machines or cookers? Or if they also could be included in the sentence, would you explain to me why you (or the author) think they are charismatic?

 

[emsr2d2]

By saying that family cars are as charismatic as fridges, the writer is saying that family cars are not charismatic at all. The fact that we all agree that fridges etc are not charismatic is what makes it work.

 

[GeneD]

Oh, now I see! Thanks, Ems. That had been quite a weird sentence to me before you explained it!

BTW, is the past perfect (had been) in the last sentence okay, or should the past simple have been used there? It's always a problem for me, this past perfect tense. :-?

 

[Raymott]

No, there's no need for the past perfect. You should always ask yourself, "Is there any chance of a misunderstanding if I use the simple past here?" If the answer is no, then use the simple past." That's a very rough rule.

 

[GeneD]

Thanks for the answer and the advice.

The problem is, there is no perfect tense in Russian, and I would always use the simple past instead of the past perfect. For me, there wouldn't be any misunderstanding in any case.

[edit]
First I used this emoji -D) thinking that it's just a bigger grin, but then I noticed that it means 'very happy', so I've changed it. (Why on Earth should I be happy about the fact I don't understand something?! )

 

[Raymott]

I always interpret emojis as what they look like to me; I don't read their "official" meaning. To me, that's a big smile, not a "very happy".

About the past perfect, then you'll have to think in English!
Here's one example:
1. "The taxi left when I arrived at the depot."
2. "The taxi had left when I arrived at the depot."

You want to say/mean 2. You couldn't take the taxi, because it had already left before you arrived. You ask yourself whether the simple past (1) could be used to say that. Could it be misleading? Yes, because it could mean that the taxi waited until you arrived, and then left (maybe with you in it). You must use the perfect here to say what you mean (unless you rearrange the grammar, or add some adverbs, of course - but I'm trying to keep it simple).

 

[probus]

I don't think charisma applies to machines. But some consumer products like cars have the corresponding machine property of cachet. But the marques that have cachet vary widely from country to country. If you are British, you may have a rakish uncle who drives a classic Jaguar. Italians have their supercars of course. And in America, at least one brand of refrigerator has cachet, the Sub-Zero.

Cachet is puzzling. A Sub-Zero costs five times as much as a top-quality fridge of similar size, and is the only fridge that requires regular preventive maintenance. But they do sell, and no other fridge looks likea Sub-Zero

 

[GeneD]

Thanks, Raymott. I think I've got it. In your second example the past simple could be used if there were the word 'before' instead of 'when', which is more precise in this case and can't cause misunderstanding, right?

The taxi left before I arrived at the depot.

I've realised that it's the word 'before' that always puzzled me when there was the choice between the past simple and perfect. Do I understand you correctly? At least in that example, there is no need for the past perfect, is there?

 

[jutfrank]

The taxi left before I arrived at the depot.
The taxi had left before I arrived at the depot.

The above two sentences are both correct but they have slightly different uses.

Since the topic of this thread is the charisma of cars and fridges, I suggest you start a new one if you want to learn more.

 

[Raymott]

I've realised that it's the word 'before' that always puzzled me when there was the choice between the past simple and perfect. Do I understand you correctly? At least in that example, there is no need for the past perfect, is there?

No, there isn't an absolute need for the past perfect in that situation. But, as I indicated, if you don't use adverbs, etc. you have to use the past perfect. It was meant to be a simple example of where the simple past does not work, and to indicate to you the difference it can make. But I made that caveat.

 

[Tdol]

Cachet is puzzling.

Economists use the term Veblen goods for ones where demand rises as the price increases: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_good