Hold the fort

[Bassim]

I have tried to use "hold the fort" in my sentence. Would you please correct my mistakes?

While Anna was in hospital, her husband was holding the fort in their fashion shop.

 

[Phaedrus]

Her husband was holding the fort down.

 

[Bassim]

"Hold the fort" is BrE. "Hold down the fort" is AmE.

 

[emsr2d2]

Absolutely Bassim. In BrE, it's just "hold(ing) the fort" meaning "looking after everything". I find "fashion shop" a little odd. Is it a clothes shop?

 

[Bassim]

emsr2d2,

Longman dictionary in the "collocations box" has "a fashion shop"

 

[Phaedrus]

"Hold the fort" is BrE. "Hold down the fort" is AmE.

But of course. Which do you aspire to speak?

 

[Bassim]

Phaedrus,

I aspire to speak British English, although I read a lot of books published in the US, but the UK is geographically closer. I listen usually to the radio programs from the UK and follow mostly what is happening in the UK rather than in the US.

 

[emsr2d2]

Phaedrus,

I aspire to speak British English, although I read a lot of books published in the US, but the UK is geographically closer. I ​usually listen [STRIKE]usually[/STRIKE] to [STRIKE]the[/STRIKE] radio programs from the UK and mostly/mainly follow [STRIKE]mostly[/STRIKE] what is happening in the UK rather than in the US.

See above.

 

[Skrej]

Both 'hold the fort' and 'hold down the fort' are commonly used in AmE. It's just a personal choice of whether or not you choose to stick in that preposition.

I tend to use 'hold the fort' as more of an imperative, but use 'hold down the fort' when speaking of my own intentions.

Hold the fort, and I'll be back in 30 minutes.
I'll hold down the fort if you want to take a quick lunch break.

 

[Phaedrus]

Commonly used? I don't think I've ever once heard the idiom without "down," and it sounds plain wrong to me without it.

 

[Phaedrus]

Well, I just had a look at the Corpus of Contemporary American English. There were 28 citations for 'hold the fort' and none for 'hold the fort down'. So, some Americans at least don't think the form without 'down' is wrong.

Congratulations, Piscean. That should get lots of likes.

 

[Phaedrus]

Most of us here respond to questions in an attempt to help, not to garner likes.

The liking feature is used at this forum, in part, as a device of marginalization and ostracism.

 

[emsr2d2]

The liking feature is used at this forum, in part, as a device of marginalization and ostracism.

That's simply not true. It's used to indicate our agreement with another response in order to avoid lengthy threads full of posts consisting of nothing but "I agree with post [number]". It serves the same function, in that regard, as the Thank button.

 

[andrewg927]

We Americans are known for being straight-forward and sometimes confrontational but many of PS's posts have a passive-aggressive tone that a lot of us are not used to. I'm pointing this out not to demean or belittle anyone but we will have better harmony if we understand why things are the way they are.

 

[andrewg927]

That's simply not true. It's used to indicate our agreement with another response in order to avoid lengthy threads full of posts consisting of nothing but "I agree with post [number]". It serves the same function, in that regard, as the Thank button.

The truth is while that may not be the intent of the people who created these buttons, they do have an unwanted side effect of marginalizing people who don't get a lot of likes. I think it's good to be aware of that.

 

[Skrej]

Commonly used? I don't think I've ever once heard the idiom without "down," and it sounds plain wrong to me without it.

Eh, it's a big country and everybody else talks funny at times. You require it, I don't. We could both easily find a dozen people to agree with us that the other is wrong, just by going out to buy some milk.

One thing you may have noticed or surely will notice soon from time on this forum is that there are frequently disagreements about the acceptability of a word or phrase between even native speaker members of the same country.

Isoglosses and dialect boundaries change sometimes with as little as a 15 mile geographical difference. Sometimes the size of the country attributes to the linguistic dispersion, but not always.

For instance, look at the UK versus the US. The UK is about 1/40th the size of the US geographically, and still has something like 56 regional dialects, while the US for all its greater size, only has roughly 24 or so. The exact numbers vary depending on what you consider distinct (versus sub-dialect) and whose research you cite, but I think it's rather fascinating that a country forty times smaller has over twice as many dialects of the same basic language.

With that in mind, I'm rarely surprised to hear another American disagree with me about what's acceptable. It's only a surprise if/when somebody who has a similar background and upbringing as myself disagrees with me.

Here are a couple of sites showing a few of these regional AmE differences. I've reviewed them probably a hundred times and still find them fascinating.

DARE quiz (with additional AmE dialectical information elsewhere on the site)
Harvard dialect survey

 

[Tdol]

The liking feature is used at this forum, in part, as a device of marginalization and ostracism.

Really? I like posts that I like. Forums are far from perfect, but they're not the hotbeds of intrigue and power politics that some critics describe. Most of the people here do have a genuine interest in talking about language. I have my views on language, but make no attempt to exclude different views and opinions. I step in when things get personal. I don't believe that English has a future tense, but will happily allow those that do to air their views. The worst I do is use the term future forms when replying to a question about the future tense. No one who thinks that English has a future tense will be ostracised or sidelined, or restricted in any way from stating their views. It would, indeed, be dishonest to suggest that this is not an issue that is disputed.

Piscean looked at one of the largest databases of contemporary American language. That's all. He didn't even try to lay down the law- he merely observed that some American users did not feel that the term could not be used without down, and gave his source. That's debate and discussion.

Debate and discussion, including disagreement, are welcome. Carping isn't.

 

[Tdol]

The truth is while that may not be the intent of the people who created these buttons, they do have an unwanted side effect of marginalizing people who don't get a lot of likes. I think it's good to be aware of that.

Many things in IT are not fully worked out in all their consequences, and may have unintended negative consequences. Piscean has well over half the likes I have received on under 15% of the posts. Somehow I will have to come to terms with my unpopularity. ;-)

 

[andrewg927]

Now aware of that, I 'liked' your post to help you feel less marginalized.

You misunderstood my post, PS. I'm completely neutral when it comes to "likes" or "thanks". To me, if someone likes my post, it's great. If not, it doesn't bother me. I certainly don't feel marginalized. But like PD noted earlier, if you like someone's post because you agree with them, that's fine but I can understand if someone feels at times that people gang up on them.

 

[andrewg927]

Many things in IT are not fully worked out in all their consequences, and may have unintended negative consequences. Piscean has well over half the likes I have received on under 15% of the posts. Somehow I will have to come to terms with my unpopularity. ;-)

Tdol, it's not about popularity. When you post something that completely contradicts with something someone said earlier and you receive a lot of likes for it, it certainly makes the other person feels ostracized. That's the moral of the story.