[Grammar] Gerund

[Alena H.]

Hello!Can anybody please help me as I'm completely confused!!!
I HATE THEM TALKING LIKE THIS
or
I HATE THEIR TALKING LIKKE THIS? :roll:

 

[2006]

Welcome!
Hello!Can anybody please help me as I'm completely confused!!!
I HATE THEM TALKING LIKE THIS. :cross:
or
I HATE THEIR TALKING LIK[STRIKE]K[/STRIKE]E THIS. :tick:

The rule is that a gerund has to be preceded by a possessive noun or pronoun.
The explanation is that you don't hate 'them......"; you hate their talking.....

"I hate them talking like this." could be interpreted as 'I hate them for talking like this.' At least, you might use this as a way to remember why the sentence with "them" is wrong.

Many native speakers either don't know this rule or choose not to follow it.

 

[Raymott]

Hello!Can anybody please help me as I'm completely confused!!!
I HATE THEM TALKING LIKE THIS :tick:
or
I HATE THEIR TALKING LIKE THIS? :roll:

Don't be too concerned. Even we natives get it wrong half the time.

 

[Raymott]

Many native speakers either don't know this rule or choose not to follow it.

Either that, or they use a different grammar book than you do.
Eg. Quirk* gives this example (p: 1065)

They liked our singing. (They liked our ‘mode’ (manner) of singing, the way we sang.) This has a nominal (noun) quality.
They liked us singing. (They liked the fact that we were singing – the ‘act’of singing.) This has a more verbal quality.

Quirk writes: "Traditionally this mixture of nominal and verbal characteristics in the -ing form has been given the name 'gerund'." (1291). The form that takes a genitive has a more nominal quality.

This allows the following example (mine) of a conversation in correct English between two women about B’s husband:
A: Do you like his singing?
B: No, his singing is awful. He can’t hold a tune at all.
A: Do you like him singing?
B: I don’t mind him singing in the bathroom, but I draw the line at him singing in front of guests.
A: So you don’t like his singing, but you don’t mind him singing in the bathroom?
B: That’s right.

By this reckoning (and I agree with Quirk), the correct sentence for Alena is:
I hate them talking like this.

* Quirk, R. et al. A Comprehensive Grammar of the English Language. Longman: Harlow, 1985.

 

[MASM]

I also consulted Mr. Swan's book and he says:

"In informal style it is more common to use object forms (like, me, John) instead of possessives (my, John's) with -ing forms, especially when these come after a verb or preposition"

Do you mind me smoking? Excuse me ringing up so late.

After some verbs (see, hear, watch, feel) possessives are not normally used with -ing forms.

I saw him getting out of the car. (NOT I saw his getting out of the car)

xxx

 

[2006]

I also consulted Mr. Swan's book and he says:

"In informal style it is more common to use object forms (like, me, John) instead of possessives (my, John's) with -ing forms, especially when these come after a verb or preposition"

Do you mind me smoking? Excuse me ringing up so late.

After some verbs (see, hear, watch, feel) possessives are not normally used with -ing forms. Yes, the preceding verb can make a difference. "hate" and "see" are quite different verbs in this context.

I saw him (as he was getting) out of the car. (NOT I saw his getting out of the car)

xxx

2006