the addition

[panicmonger]

Pasta's basic ingredients are flour and water, sometimes with the addition of eggs or oil.

This is a sentence I copied from my dictionary, I have been wondering why the author put a "the" in front of "addition":?:

Is this because "of eggs or oil" is specific enough so we have to use "the" in front of the "addition":?:

But I would just like to make a general reference. Shouldn't "the" be omitted:?:
Sometimes it is so confusing as to beat my brain.

Thanks for your help.

 

[susiedqq]

In this sentence, "addition" is a noun, so it needs an article in front.

 

[masuas]

But I would just like to make a general reference. Shouldn't "the" be omitted. Sometimes it is so confusing as to beat my brain.
Just don't make your brains as scrambled eggs.
susiedqq told you the reason. But if you do not wish to use THE,
you would have to say it in a different manner, like:



Pasta's basic ingredients are flour and water, but sometimes adding eggs or oil, makes it taste better.

 

[Pedroski]

1) Pasta's basic ingredients are flour and water, sometimes with the addition of eggs or oil.

Wihout the 'the' it sounds a bit funny. But I would write:

2) Pasta's basic ingredients are flour and water, sometimes under addition of eggs or oil.

I think that in both you can use 'the addition' or 'addition'. I think just using 'addition' in 1) you have 'quick cook book' style of prose.

 

[panicmonger]

1) Pasta's basic ingredients are flour and water, sometimes with the addition of eggs or oil.

Wihout the 'the' it sounds a bit funny. But I would write:

2) Pasta's basic ingredients are flour and water, sometimes under addition of eggs or oil.

I think that in both you can use 'the addition' or 'addition'. I think just using 'addition' in 1) you have 'quick cook book' style of prose.

Thank you, Pedroski.

Sometimes, it is quite difficult to determine whether an uncountable noun is specific or not, especially after being modified.

 

[panicmonger]

The "the" is required because it is specific. It is incorrect without "the". "under" cannot be used in this text. Under means below or less than.

The building is in the danger of collapsing.

Is it specific enough to put "the" in front of danger?

Thank you.

 

[bhaisahab]

The "the" is required because it is specific. It is incorrect without "the". "under" cannot be used in this text. Under means below or less than.

I agree, "under" is completely incorrect.

 

[susiedqq]

Do you have a prblem with these?

Pasta's basic ingredients are flour and water, sometimes with a bit of oil and eggs.

Pasta's basic ingredients are flour and water, sometimes with a cup of oil and three eggs.

 

[Pedroski]

"under" cannot be used in this text. Any particular reason why not?

I suggest you do a net-search. Enter "under addition of". Ditto "with addition of"

You will get in the region of 300 000 000 hits each time. Here just one example I got by randomly clicking on page 10 of the search results.

In Afghanistan Hashish is pressed by hand under addition of a small quantity of tea or water.

Would you care to state your reasons why 'It is incorrect without "the".'?

 

[Pedroski]

I believe I have a vague grasp of the meaning of 'addition'. If you don't like maths, maybe you like chemistry?
Anything that mentions hashish must be written by a foreigner?
The following excerpts are probably written by professors and doctors. But I suppose they have bad English too!

...obtained pellets were mixed under addition of 15 g talc and subsequently screened.

.... into a spectroscopic cuvette under addition of 10 µl of DCVJ stock solution,

....mechanically mixed under addition of an organic volatile solvent (acetone, chloroform or methylene chloride)

The list goes on ........(almost endlessly)

If you do not have the phrase 'under addition of' in your dialect, that's not a problem. But as an English teacher, you really should be aware that it is a common phrase, used regularly and by very many people. We learn something new every day!

Quite what you mean by 'The article "the" is required because addition is specific.' I can't fathom. I assume it was written by a foreigner.

Try a search for "mixed with addition of" until you are sure that lots of people use the phrase that way.

are mixed with addition of bitumen emulsion

mixed with addition of 1.0 g finely ground cadmium sulfide. (another endless list of pages)

Then reconsider your contention!

 

[bhaisahab]

It would seem to me that "under addition" is far from being in common use, except amongst mathematicians and scientists. Obviously if you do a google search of it, you will get a lot of hits but that doesn't mean that its use is widespread in general English.

 

[Pedroski]

Did you not say it was 'completely wrong'? The mathematicians and scientists are completely wrong? Or they don't speak English?

I could google cook books, I suppose, but they are probably wrong too. I get 372 000 hits in 0.18 seconds. Here a few cookery examples:

and all of these can come in various flavours with addition of tomato, spinach and a variety of herbs

while pasta can be made a complete meal with addition of a few vegetables.

Tomato soup dresses up nicely with addition of spinach and pasta

ingredients consist of protein ...... under addition of vitamins, mineral nutrients, trace elements,

dumplings made under addition of yeast

Must be them damn foreigners a-writin' all that.

 

[bhaisahab]

Originally Posted by Gillnetter
The "the" is required because it is specific. It is incorrect without "the". "under" cannot be used in this text. Under means below or less than.

I agree, "under" is completely incorrect.

Did you not say it was 'completely wrong'? The mathematicians and scientists are completely wrong? Or they don't speak English?

I could google cook books, I suppose, but they are probably wrong too. I get 372 000 hits in 0.18 seconds. Here a few cookery examples:

and all of these can come in various flavours with addition of tomato, spinach and a variety of herbs

while pasta can be made a complete meal with addition of a few vegetables.

Tomato soup dresses up nicely with addition of spinach and pasta

ingredients consist of protein ...... under addition of vitamins, mineral nutrients, trace elements,

dumplings made under addition of yeast

Must be them damn foreigners a-writin' all that.

As you can see I was agreeing with Gilnetter that "under" was completely wrong in the context.
I haven't commented at all on the correctness of "the" in this thread.

 

[Pedroski]

Do you still think it is incorrect? If so, will you say why?

 

[Pedroski]

Just because it's on the Internet is no guarantee that it is correct.

I agree. The corollary, for me anyway, is, you saying it is incorrect does not mean that it is, in fact, incorrect.

 

[masuas]

This reminds me of a bridge under construction, doesn't it sound weird too?
Under, kind of implies "less", and, addition, "more". Is it almost like an oxymoron? It sounds strange, even to my incipient understanding. Is this correct?

Eager to follow your argument gentlemen.:-?

 

[bhaisahab]

This reminds me of a bridge under construction, doesn't it sound weird too?
Under, kind of implies "less", and, addition, "more". Is it almost like an oxymoron? It sounds strange, even to my incipient understanding. Is this correct?

Eager to follow your argument gentlemen.:-?

"Under construction" is a common expression, used to talk about something in the process of being built.;-)

 

[e2e4]

I am here to learn the language.
But I can't learn the language by way of behaving like a parrot only. I usually think of how do I feel it at the moment, depending on the level of the knowledge, collected and developed.

On my first view, the sentence

Pasta's basic ingredients are flour and water, sometimes under addition of eggs or oil.

seemed strange to me.

Thinking of it I've become familiar with the sentence.
At length after the explanation I concluded that the phrase for example perfectly match chemical industry which should explain chemical processes between materials.

Under different ingredients these two materials react different.

"Under addition of these two ingredients" could also mean "under control of these two ingredients"

The preposition under doesn't always mean that something is covered with something else but the word under has a lot of meanings as a part of different phrases.

Thinking about the genuine sentence my conclusion is that "the addition of eggs and oil" is wrong.

Why?

Because "the addition of eggs and oil" means for me "the very strict ratio between them and the flour and water."
That is how I feel the matter.

But

My pasta's basic ingredients are flour and water and the addition of eggs and oil. This is OK for me.
The specified pasta uses the addition of eggs and oil.
Non specified pasta uses an addition of eggs and oil.

(In this sentence, "addition" is a noun, so it needs an article in front. (SUSIEDQQ))

Different people like to make different pasta with its specific ratio between the ingredients.

 

[masuas]

THANK YOU GUYS. I'M ON MY WAY TO SEE THE BRIDGE UNDER CONSTRUCTION. SEE YOU.

 

[Pedroski]

Pues, nos veremos, bajo el puente, ¿vale?