[Grammar] If you have + you will have

[Mannysteps]

I've been confronted a few times with having the following construction being rejected and classified as unnaceptable:

"If you have been to Madrid, you will have visited El Prado."

I think it is fine, but, can anyone comment and extend on this?

In expectation,
M.

 

[birdeen's call]

I see nothing wrong about this sentence. "Will" expresses assumption here. It says

Since you have been to Madrid, I suppose you have visited El Prado.

(This is just my opinion. Perhaps the sentence could be used in other situations too.)

 

[murderyou]

I've been confronted a few times with having the following construction being rejected and classified as unnaceptable:

"If you have been to Madrid, you will have visited El Prado."

I think it is fine, but, can anyone comment and extend on this?

In expectation,
M.

Past tense and future tense mixed! I'm not quite getting the meaning.

 

[5jj]

"If you have been to Madrid, you will have visited El Prado."

I think it is fine, but, can anyone comment and extend on this?

It's possible. 'You will have visited ..." has the sense of 'I (the speaker) am certain that you visited ..."

 

[murderyou]

Since you have been to Madrid, I suppose you have visited El Prado.

(This is just my opinion. Perhaps the sentence could be used in other situations too.)

now this one makes complete sense :up:

 

[5jj]

Past tense and future tense mixed! I'm not quite getting the meaning.

It's not the future tense, or even the future perfect tense. Will is a modal verb that can be used to express, among other things, certainty.

ps. Most grammarians agree that there is no future tense in English. Will is simply one of several ways of expressing futurity - though it is not used in that way in the sentence we are discussing.

 

[Mannysteps]

Thank you Birdeen's call. The reason for the thread is that many non-native English teachers shy from the use of "If + subject has + past participle, Subject + will have + past participle". I know that with the first person would sound like a case of amnesia: "If I have studied at Suchandsuch Shcool, I will have met Peter Sowanso" But with the second and third it is perfectly acceptable use of the conditional.

Regards.

 

[murderyou]

It's not the future tense, or even the future perfect tense. Will is a modal verb that can be used to express, among other things, certainty.

But it means sth is gonna happen in the future and it is certain when "will" is used. Right?

ps. Most grammarians agree that there is no future tense in English. Will is simply one of several ways of expressing futurity - though it is not used in that way in the sentence we are discussing.

Then, how do you express that you're going to do sth in the future?

Now whats the difference between "future" and "futurity" :?::?::?::?::?::?::?:

English is indeed a tough language to learn. :------(

 

[murderyou]

Thank you Birdeen's call. The reason for the thread is that many non-native English teachers shy from the use of "If + subject has + past participle, Subject + will have + past participle". I know that with the first person would sound like a case of amnesia: "If I have studied at Suchandsuch Shcool, I will have met Peter Sowanso" But with the second and third it is perfectly acceptable use of the conditional.

Regards.

r u native?

 

[Mannysteps]

It is the reservation shown by Murderyou, that I've seen many students of English sharing. Maybe you see my point Fijedjon, when I say teachers have made it seem unnaceptable.

Thanks for your quick reply,
M.

 

[5jj]

But it means [STRIKE]sth[/STRIKE] something is [STRIKE]gonna[/STRIKE] going to happen in the future and it is certain when "will" is used. Right?

Please try to avoid chatlish and unnecessary abbreviations in this forum.

Not always.

It is nearly midnight. Mary will be in bed now.

Then, how do you express that you're going to do sth in the future?
There are several ways:

Emma leaves for Paris tomorrow.
Emma is leaving for Paris tomorrow.
Emma will leave for Paris tomorrow.
Emma is going to leave for Paris tomorrow.
Emma will be leaving for Paris tomorrow.

There is a slight difference between the messages conveyed by these, but they all refer to Emma's future leaving.

5

 

[5jj]

Maybe you see my point Fivjedjon, when I say teachers have made it seem unnaceptable.

Indeed. I have heard far too many teachers say "Never use will (or would) in an if- clause.