like vs as

[Offroad]

Dear teachers

Is there anything wrong with this sentence?

... and Mark, as a douche-bag he's always been, ruined the party.

Many thanks

 

[5jj]

I believe that most native speakers would use "like" in your sentence.

I agree.

I believe that the "as" in your sentence is correct.

...and Mark, as the d___ bag that he has always been, ruined the party.

(e) I believe that "as" is correct because my books call for "as" in the sense of "in the role of."

I think that this is possible only if Mark is deliberately playing his habitual role as an unpleasant person.

 

[Offroad]

I wonder why TheParser removed his work. I always love them, so full of details (not that other teacher's contributions are less important). I have it in my email.

 

[Offroad]

Originally Posted by TheParser
I believe that most native speakers would use "like" in your sentence.
I agree.


I believe that the "as" in your sentence is correct.

...and Mark, as the d___ bag that he has always been, ruined the party.

(e) I believe that "as" is correct because my books call for "as" in the sense of "in the role of."
I think that this is possible only if Mark is deliberately playing his habitual role as an unpleasant person.

Yes, that's why I chose the present perfect, to demonstrate that his behaviour has always bugged people.
... and Mark, as the d___ bag he's always been, ruined the party.

However, if it's not too much to ask, I would like to see some further explanation on the 'like' perspective!

Many thanks

 

[Offroad]

To me, these read well:

... and Mark, as the d___ bag he's always been, ruined the party. (Everybody knows that he is and has always been unpleasant)
... and Mark, like a d___ bag, ruined the party. (His behaviour surprised everyone)

'like', to me, does not fit well with the present perfect in this context.

Thanks

 

[TheParser]

... and Mark, as the d___ bag he's always been, ruined the party. (Everybody knows that he is and has always been unpleasant)


'like', to me, does not fit well with the present perfect in this context.


NOT A TEACHER


(1) Against my better judgment, I am going to attempt an answer.

(2) I believe that everything depends on the interpretation of Teacher Fivejedjon's answer: As is possible "only if Mark is deliberately playing his habitual roll" as a jerk.

(a) I am certainly not a good reader. But I feel that the adverb "deliberately" means something like: Mark himself knows that he is acting like a jerk. In other words, it does not really matter what others think. For the use of "as," the only thing that matters is the intention of Mark. In other words, in what capacity is he acting? (Remember what Shakespeare told us: we are all actors.)

(3) Of course, most jerks do not realize (or admit to themselves) that they are jerks.
So maybe that is why "as" is a very unlikely word in such a sentence. In other words, when Teacher Fivejedjon said that most people would use "like," he might have been overly kind. Maybe everyone would use it! The chances of Mark going to the party with the thought "Tonight I am going to be a real jerk because I want everyone there to hate me" is quite unlikely.

(4) I really do not think that the present perfect has anything to do with it. I think that maybe the "correct" answer is:

... and Mark, like the jerk that he has always been, ruined the party.

"Like the jerk that he has always been" represents your opinion (and perhaps of the other party goers), but it is only expressing a similarity to the category of jerks. It is impossible for you to know what is going on inside Mark's mind. In fact, he may think that he is one of the nicest people on earth. They always do!

(5) Well, I am going to wait for some replies. And, of course, I will have my finger on the delete button!

 

[Tdol]

(5) And, of course, I will have my finger on the delete button!

Please don't. Leave the delete button alone. ;-)

And I prefer like the jerk he's always been.

 

[Offroad]

Very interesting!
Well... if you all experienced teachers say 'like' is more likely.. who am I to disagree?

TheParser covered it all with ease, as usual.

I've been working like a dog (likely, you've been working too much)
I've been working as a dog (unlikely, what do dogs do for a living? chase cats? thieves?)

Alright. I am convinced!;-)

Thank you all.

 

[TheParser]

I've been working like a dog (likely, you've been working too much)
I've been working as a dog (unlikely, what do dogs do for a living? chase cats? thieves?)

Alright. I am convinced!;-)


NOT A TEACHER


(1) I agree with your interpretation of the first sentence. (I have never understood why people say that dogs work hard. Most of the dogs that I see are living a rather work-free life.)

(2) May I most respectfully disagree with your interpretation of the second sentence? It seems to have been spoken by a dog. As far as I know, there are no dogs that speak
English. When I was younger, many Americans enjoyed a TV show featuring a talking horse. I am not joking. Every week, millions of people would tune in to see the latest humorous adventures of "Mr. Ed." I believe that it would have been correct English if he had said: I have been working as a horse all day.

 

[birdeen's call]

Wouldn't it be most natural to omit the word?

and Mark, a/the douche-bag he's always been, ruined the party.

PS: To elaborate a bit, does it really make sense to compare Mark to the douchebag he's always been? It's strange to me and I must say that I don't recognize the original construction, neither with "as" nor with "like".

 

[Offroad]

I've been working like a dog (likely, you've been working too much)
I've been working as a dog (unlikely, what do dogs do for a living? chase cats? thieves?)

Alright. I am convinced!;-)


NOT A TEACHER


(1) I agree with your interpretation of the first sentence. (I have never understood why people say that dogs work hard. Most of the dogs that I see are living a rather work-free life.)

(2) May I most respectfully disagree with your interpretation of the second sentence? It seems to have been spoken by a dog. As far as I know, there are no dogs that speak
English. When I was younger, many Americans enjoyed a TV show featuring a talking horse. I am not joking. Every week, millions of people would tune in to see the latest humorous adventures of "Mr. Ed." I believe that it would have been correct English if he had said: I have been working as a horse all day.

That's what I meant.

I've been working as a police K-9 dog (almost impossible) :-D

 

[Offroad]

Wouldn't it be most natural to omit the word?

and Mark, a/the douche-bag he's always been, ruined the party.

That'd work, but the point of the thread is understand the subtle difference between 'as' and 'like' in such contexts.

 

[birdeen's call]

That'd work, but the point of the thread is understand the subtle difference between 'as' and 'like' in such contexts.

Please, see my PS.

 

[TheParser]

I've been working as a police K-9 dog (almost impossible) :-D

NOT A TEACHER


(1) I do not want to belabor the point, but "almost" impossible? I would say

100% impossible. I do not think that you have ever worked as a dog (unless it was

in a previous life!).

(2) Please remember that "as" means in the role/capacity of X:

Fido (the four-legged animal) has been working as a K-9 dog for 10 years.

Mr. X has been running the country as president for 4 years. (He is the official president.)

Mr. Y has been running the country like a president for 4 years. (He is not officially the president, but everyone knows that he is the power behind the throne.)

 

[5jj]

PS: To elaborate a bit, does it really make sense to compare Mark to the douchebag he's always been? It's strange to me and I must say that I don't recognize the original construction, neither with "as" nor with "like".

5jj, like the careless writer he is, made several typos in his last post.

It is not uncommon with 'like'. Many informal and idiomatic expressions could perhaps be more simply phrased, but then we'd probably be out of a job.