[Grammar] X-mas

[Jack8rkin]

Hello everybody!
Got an 'article' problem in the phrase from the song:

"We wish you a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year".

The indefinite article is not normally used with Christmas, right?
What's the logics here? Could you please explain it to me?

What about the "a" with the "New Year"? Is it becayse the noun year is countable?
Will you please clarify it to me?

Thank you.

 

[Barb_D]

Adding the adjective allows the indefinite article. It shows in many situations.

I hope your Christmas is a merry one - I hope you have a merry Christmas.
Emily got some great news. It was a happy Emily who showed up on our doorstep.
This year I want to go to Ireland for St. Patrick's Day. It will be a memorable St. Patrick's Day!

 

[Jack8rkin]

Is it because it may be implying a Christmas day? And a day when "New Year" coming is celebrated?

As for "a happy Emely", I suppose the "a" is used for an emphasis here, to show the contrast or something like that. And in case with X-mas and New Year it seems to be a little different. Right?

 

[Barb_D]

Have a happy Easter.
Have a merry Christmas (the day or season, either one).
Have a wonderful New Year (the day or the entire year)
It was a memorable St. Patrick's Day.
It was a festive Fourth of July.

Each time you have a modifier like this, you use "a."

 

[hooshdar3]

(Not a teacher)

I wish you a happy xmas from amongst the many you have.

 

[Jack8rkin]

Have a happy Easter.
Have a merry Christmas (the day or season, either one).
Have a wonderful New Year (the day or the entire year)
It was a memorable St. Patrick's Day.
It was a festive Fourth of July.

Each time you have a modifier like this, you use "a."

Thank you very much.

It's just... My colleague asked me yesterday about the indefinite articles
in congrats like the above ones because he had gotten an e-mail from the U.S.
and as he told me it went like this:
"wish you a Merry Christmas and a wonderful Happy New Year" .

As I see it now, the article does imply a day or a season in the above case.
In the Longman Dictionary, the noun "Christmas" is marked as both uncountable and countable.
So I guess if we use the indefinite article we imply a day or a season.
If we do not use the indefinite article it's a sort of festive activites or something like that.
Is my logics correct?

 

[Barb_D]

I hope someone else will respond to this thread. I've tried to say twice now that it's when you add a descriptive word that you use the article.

Easter is almost here. I hope it will be a happy Easter for us all.
Christmas is on Dec 25. I wiish you a Merry Christmas.
Independence Day is an important holiday. Have a celebratory Independence Day.
Peter is a nice guy. It was a very happy Peter who told us of his engagement.

I've now tried three times. If it's still not clear to you that it's the descriptive word (happy, merry, celebratory, happy again) that makes the diffrence, then someone else will need to try to explain it another way.

 

[Jack8rkin]

I hope someone else will respond to this thread. I've tried to say twice now that it's when you add a descriptive word that you use the article.

Easter is almost here. I hope it will be a happy Easter for us all.
Christmas is on Dec 25. I wiish you a Merry Christmas.
Independence Day is an important holiday. Have a celebratory Independence Day.
Peter is a nice guy. It was a very happy Peter who told us of his engagement.

I've now tried three times. If it's still not clear to you that it's the descriptive word (happy, merry, celebratory, happy again) that makes the diffrence, then someone else will need to try to explain it another way.

Ok-Ok!
Got it.
It's just quite strange to me that a descriptive word could make a difference. I thought a change in the sence of the word is important.
I just thought that something else is standing behind the use of the indefinite article. (I mean whether or not is the noun countable/uncountable).

 

[Raymott]

It's just... My colleague asked me yesterday about the indefinite articles
in congrats like the above ones because he had gotten an e-mail from the U.S.
and as he told me it went like this:
"wish you a Merry Christmas and a wonderful [STRIKE]Happy[/STRIKE] New Year" .
"a wonderful Happy New Year" is wrong. "Happy" and "Merry" are capitalised because they have become common greetings. I suppose, so too is "New Year".
You can have a wonderful, happy New Year. You can't have a miserable Happy New Year.

Is my logics correct?
Is my logic correct?

No, I think Barb's right. Your logic has led you to the wrong conclusion.

 

[Jack8rkin]

No, I think Barb's right. Your logic has led you to the wrong conclusion.

What a wrong conclusion do you mean?

 

[emsr2d2]

BarbD has hit the nail on the head entirely. I had never considered the question until today but the longer I think about it, the clearer it is. The use of an adjective makes all the difference.

What are you doing on Christmas Day?
On Christmas Day I'm going to my parents.
How was Christmas Day?
Oh, it was awful.
Why? What happened?
It was just a dreadful Christmas Day. Everything went wrong.
And what about New Year?
Fortunately, I had a lovely New Year, thanks!

 

[Jack8rkin]

Ok. Capitalization is understandable. I did not see the originall letter, it may have been written in the way you described.

You can't have a miserable Happy New Year.
Believe me, you can.

 

[Raymott]

Ok. Capitalization is understandable. I did not see the originall letter, it may have been written in the way you described.

You can't have a miserable Happy New Year.
Believe me, you can.

Possibly, though I'm not sure how.
In case your logic has let you down again, "Happy" in "Happy New Year" means the same as "happy". It's capitalised, as I said, from tradition.
If you are asserting that one can have a miserable, happy New Year, or even a miserable, happy new year, I'd like to know how.
Miserable and happy, I could accept without explanation. I'd assume that counteracting influences were affecting your mind during the period, and that you were at times happy and at other times miserable.
But both together sounds suspiciously like a misunderstanding.

 

[Jack8rkin]

Possibly, though I'm not sure how.
In case your logic has let you down again, "Happy" in "Happy New Year" means the same as "happy". It's capitalised, as I said, from tradition.
If you are asserting that one can have a miserable, happy New Year, or even a miserable, happy new year, I'd like to know how.
Miserable and happy, I could accept without explanation. I'd assume that counteracting influences were affecting your mind during the period, and that you were at times happy and at other times miserable.
But both together sounds suspiciously like a misunderstanding.

Well, what if you get a card and "Happy New Year" is written on it and the card is misrable itself?

 

[Jack8rkin]

Ok. So, the bottom line is:

Generally, we do not use articles with the names of holidays.
If a modifier is used before the name of a holiday, then the indefinite article is required.

I was asking for logic standing behind it.
What I got is a rule.
Still ok.

 

[Raymott]

Ok. So, the bottom line is:

Generally, we do not use articles with the names of holidays.
If a modifier is used before the name of a holiday, then the indefinite article is required.

I was asking for logic standing behind it.
What I got is a rule.
Still ok.

You got the truth about how we do things. If you want to call that a rule, that's your choice. Like most things in language, for the people who speak it, it's simply a habit based on conforming to norms. It's only learners and teachers who call them rules.

The logic should be easy to work out from what you've been told in this thread, and from you about articles in English. We don't say "Have a Christmas", since it's very difficult to avoid, and you don't need to be told that. We don't say. "Have merry Christmas" because English requires an article here (Are you asking about the logic of using articles at all?). We do say "Have Christmas": sometimes, as in "I'm having Christmas at my daughter's place this year".
If I told my friend this, he could say, "I hope it's happy" or "I hope it's a happy one" or "I hope it's a Happy Christmas". (Note that 'a' is not necessary with only the adjective.)
It's consistent with the use of articles with adjectives and nouns at other times of the year. There would be no logic in changing the grammar simply for the Christmas/New Year season.

 

[5jj]

Well, what if you get a card and "Happy New Year" is written on it and the card is misrable itself?

If you can have a miserable card, then you can have a miserable Happy New Year card, but you can't have a miserable happy new year or a miserable Happy New Year.

 

[Jack8rkin]

You got the truth about how we do things. If you want to call that a rule, that's your choice. Like most things in language, for the people who speak it, it's simply a habit based on conforming to norms. It's only learners and teachers who call them rules.

The logic should be easy to work out from what you've been told in this thread, and from you about articles in English. We don't say "Have a Christmas", since it's very difficult to avoid, and you don't need to be told that. We don't say. "Have merry Christmas" because English requires an article here (Are you asking about the logic of using articles at all?). We do say "Have Christmas": sometimes, as in "I'm having Christmas as my daughters place this year".
If I told my friend this, he could say, "I hope it's happy" or "I hope it's a happy one" or "I hope it's a Happy Christmas". (Note that 'a' is not necessary with only the adjective.)
It's consistent with the use of articles with adjectives and nouns at other times of the year. There would be no logic in changing the grammar simply for the Christmas/New Year season.

Wouldn't you agree that behind any rule there is logic?
Wouldn't you agree that each habit (language included) comes from a repitive action?
And behind the repetitive action there must be some logic?
So basically I was asking why this habit came into use.
I guess it's hard to trace back... Well, if possible, shed some light upon it.

It may have been a fad at one time and then it became a habit and later a rule?

 

[Jack8rkin]

If you can have a miserable card, then you can have a miserable Happy New Year card, but you can't have a miserable happy new year or a miserable Happy New Year.

I'm just joking here. ;-)

Well, what if everybody is joyful and drunk near you and each and eveyone is getting on your nerves, and you are having a miserable time because of it?
Could it be used as an oxymoron, i.e. a miserable (for you) Happy New Year (for every one else)?

Or a situatioin (not so uncommon in Russia) where the boss demands of the team that the New Year must be a Happy New Year (I mean the day when the team has a get-together). But it's miserable for the team because the boss is too bossy and they are forced to be "happy" no matter what.
Would it be possible to say:
"Ahh, again it was a miserable Happy New Year".

 

[emsr2d2]

I'm just joking here. ;-)

Well, what if everybody is joyful and drunk near you and each and eveyone is getting on your nerves, and you are having a miserable time because of it?
Could it be used as an oxymoron, i.e. a miserable (for you) Happy New Year (for every one else)?

Or a situatioin (not so uncommon in Russia) where the boss demands of the team that the New Year must be a Happy New Year (I mean the day when the team has a get-together). But it's miserable for the team because the boss is too bossy and they are forced to be "happy" no matter what.
Would it be possible to say:
"Ahh, again it was a miserable Happy New Year".

If you said it in a very sarcastic way, then people would understand you but I reiterate the previous messages. A "Happy New Year" is not a recognised time of year or a recognised three-word noun, it is something you say to someone to tell them that you hope they will have a good next twelve months.

In your situation above, I would say "Ah, again it was a miserable New Year".