What does 'the comma' convey?

[faryan]

Hi
What does 'the comma' convey here? 'minute' is plural and possessive, isn't it? Shouldn't we use apostrophe S for talking about people?

The proposal was repealed after thirty minutes' discussion...

 

[JohnParis]

It's improperly used (as commas often are). There is nothing possessive about this and it appears that you are talking about a proposal, not "people".
The proposal was repealed after thirty minutes discussion among members of the board of directors..

 

[5jj]

I feel that the apostophe is correct, though sometimes not used, in such cases as a week's wages, in three days' time, thirty minutes' discussion.

For the last, we could also say a thirty-minute discussion.

 

[TheParser]

***** NOT A TEACHER *****

Here are some examples from Mr. Raymond Murphy's very helpful Grammar in Use

(Intermediate students):

I have three weeks' vacation.
I need eight hours' sleep.
My house is very near -- only about five minutes' walk.

It would appear that your sentence is correct.

 

[Rover_KE]

Shouldn't we use apostrophe S for talking about people?

It's a common misconception that the possessive apostrophe can only be used for people.

As TheParser said, your sentence is correct.

Rover

 

[5jj]

It's also a common misconception that 's must suggest possession.

 

[faryan]

Thank you dear all. It clicked.

 

[TheParser]

It's also a common misconception that 's must suggest possession.

***** NOT A TEACHER *****


(1) 5jj has reminded us learners of something very important: grammar books for

us ordinary people call 's the "possessive." But the correct word is the genitive.

(a) If you are a serious student who wants to do research on the Web, you should

google "genitive" in addition to "possessive."

(2) One (old!) book that helped me realize this was Understanding Grammar by Professor Paul Roberts (published in ancient times -- 1954!).

(3) Here are a few examples from his book:

(a) Roger's house. (Yes, this is a true possessive genitive.)

(b) Edgar's answer. (This is a subject genitive. That is, Edgar [the subject] answered.

(c) a month's absence. (This is a genitive of measure. It answers the question "How long?")

(4) There are other kinds of genitive, too. But I shall end my post here. Just wanted

to show you what 5jj meant when he told us learners that 's is not, in fact, always a

real possessive.

 

[5jj]

Sorry Parser, but I don't believe in the existence of a genitive form in English.

 

[faryan]

Sorry Parser, but I don't believe in the existence of a genitive form in English.

I love you two and the way you deal with the problem, go on cause you're showing me the rope...

 

[TheParser]

Sorry Parser, but I don't believe in the existence of a genitive form in English.

My bad! (That's young people's talk for "my mistake.")

:lol:

 

[5jj]

My bad! (That's young people's talk for "my mistake.")

It's just a matter of labelling, Parser. Like many (but not all) people, I am not in favour of using labels designed for Latin grammar when talking about English. Some writers who feel like me about this call it the 'possessive' form. It's so widely used, that I have been known to use it myself; it is, after all, commonly used to show posssession, or, at least ownership. However, leaving aside the phrases we have been discussing, I have never been happy with the idea of either possession or ownership in such phrases as 'Peter's brother'.

I suppose I should refer to it as the 's plus apostophe' form.

 

[BobK]

I love you two and the way you deal with the problem, go on cause you're showing me the rope...

Incidentally, the idiom you have in mind is 'showing me the ropes' - like so many other metaphors in English, this has a nautical origin: 'the ropes' are the ropes on a sailing ship.

b

 

[faryan]

Thank you all.

 

[birdeen's call]

It's just a matter of labelling, Parser. Like many (but not all) people, I am not in favour of using labels designed for Latin grammar when talking about English. Some writers who feel like me about this call it the 'possessive' form. It's so widely used, that I have been known to use it myself; it is, after all, commonly used to show posssession, or, at least ownership. However, leaving aside the phrases we have been discussing, I have never been happy with the idea of either possession or ownership in such phrases as 'Peter's brother'.

I think this could be an argument for "genitive" being a better word than "possessive" here. I'd rather "s plus apostrophe" didn't stick. I never know how write such things. This a combination of what I've seen and what I can imagine

s plus apostrophe
's' plus apostrophe
"s" plus apostrophe
S plus apostrophe
'S' plus apostrophe
"S" plus aopstrophe
ess plus apostrophe

The last one seems the easiest to handle in the various situations one might encounter. But I've never seen it. Now these should be at least multipied by two when it's used as an adjective. Every one of them could be hyphenated or not.

All these oddities that come creeping into languages make a decent person spend their time wondering how many nested quotation marks is still OK instead of writing down their thoughts.

 

[BobK]

...Like many (but not all) people, I am not in favour of using labels designed for Latin grammar when talking about English. Some writers who feel like me about this call it the 'possessive' form. It's so widely used, that I have been known to use it myself; it is, after all, commonly used to show posssession, or, at least ownership. However, leaving aside the phrases we have been discussing, I have never been happy with the idea of either possession or ownership in such phrases as 'Peter's brother'.

...

This isn't a knock-down argument, or even a particularly persuasive one but it's striking (to me, at least) that the words genitiive and gene have a common ancestor, so that in one sense phrases such as 'Peter's brother' can most accurately be termed 'genitive'. ;-)

b

 

[TheParser]

the words genitiive and gene have a common ancestor, so that in one sense phrases such as 'Peter's brother' can most accurately be termed 'genitive'. ;-)

b

Thank you for teaching us learners that interesting fact. Nice way to start today.

(It's 2:50 a.m. here.)