you and I

[aysaa]

Hi,

You and he are very close, I tke it? ​

or ​

He and you are very close, I take it?

Him and I are friends. ​

or ​

He and I are friends.

Which style is fine to use?

Thanks...


​

 

[BobK]

They're all OK. The one with 'him' is informal, and the second sounds a bit stilted to me. The first has an obvious typo.

b

 

[5jj]

The one with 'him' is informal,...

Perhaps I am old(-fashioned), but I consider that one to be unacceptable.

 

[SoothingDave]

Perhaps I am old(-fashioned), but I consider that one to be unacceptable.

I agree. And the common "incorrect" use would be "Me and him..."

 

[Nicky_K]

Not a teacher

English is the one language I'm familiar with, which uses object pronouns (like me, him, her, us) in a 'strange' way. E.g. It's me, that's us etc. In the objective case. They are all correct sentences. But in many other languages we say It's I or That's we - in the nominative case, which is incorrect in English. E.g. in German 'Das bin ich', 'Das sind wir' (the same is in Russian). Nominative is the right case in these languages for these sentences. In other circumstances you have to use object pronouns the right way. Cp. 'I gave him my book', 'He is doing my homework' . Both are in the same cases as in other languages. This 'strange' usage of object pronouns leads to the fact, that many people say them wrong, but it's sounds like they are right sentences. I hope you understand, what I mean

 

[5jj]

The 'incorrect' usage is common only with pronouns linked by 'and'.

You will hear "Me and John/John and me is/are going", but not "Me is going".

In the case of "It's/That's/etc me/him/etc" It could be argued that this has always been acceptable to most speakers; we have here not an object pronoun but an emphatic one. It is no more incorrect than the French "C'est moi/lui/etc".

 

[Tdol]

You'll also hear Myself and John/John and myself are going. Some linguists have argued that rules about subject/object should be relaxed with compound pronouns, but many disagree. As reflexive and object pronouns in subject position are regarded as wrong by many, playing safe and not using them might be a sensible approach.

 

[BobK]

The 'incorrect' usage is common only with pronouns linked by 'and'.

You will hear "Me and John/John and me is/are going", but not "Me is going".

In the case of "It's/That's/etc me/him/etc" It could be argued that this has always been acceptable to most speakers; we have here not an object pronoun but an emphatic one. It is no more incorrect than the French "C'est moi/lui/etc".

Good point - I'd never thought of it that way, but now you've said it it's hard not to. ;-)

 

[BobK]

I agree. And the common "incorrect" use would be "Me and him..."

I'd agreed on that - 'Me and him' being 'incorrect'. I specifically meant to regard as acceptable (but informal) 'Him and I'.
Applying 5jj's analysis, 'him' is not objective or accusative or whatever you prefer, it's emphatic - like lui (in the emphatic use of that word, not the indirect object).

b

 

[Raymott]

Not a teacher

English is the one language I familiar with, which uses object pronouns (like me, him, her, us) in a 'strange' way.

The red comma doesn't belong. It signifies a non-restrictive clause. I thought you were saying that English was the only language you knew, and that it uses object pronouns in a strange way. Another example of a non-restrictive clause: "English is the only language I'm familiar with, which is fine by me."

What you mean (since you are familar with other languages) is "English is the one language I familiar with which uses object pronouns (like me, him, her, us) in a 'strange' way."

 

[SoothingDave]

I'd agreed on that - 'Me and him' being 'incorrect'. I specifically meant to regard as acceptable (but informal) 'Him and I'.
Applying 5jj's analysis, 'him' is not objective or accusative or whatever you prefer, it's emphatic - like lui (in the emphatic use of that word, not the indirect object).

b

I don't think I've ever heard anyone say "Him and I," (as a sentence's subject) which is why I commented. It's certainly incorrect grammatically, but I don't think it's natural at all.

 

[Nicky_K]

English is the one language I'm familiar with, which uses object pronouns (like me, him, her, us) in a 'strange' way.

The red comma doesn't belong. It signifies a non-restrictive clause."

In other languages I'm familiar with, it has to be a comma at this place :-D

 

[BobK]

I don't think I've ever heard anyone say "Him and I," (as a sentence's subject) which is why I commented. It's certainly incorrect grammatically, but I don't think it's natural at all.

It is here.

b