Write your answer with a black pen

[keannu]

Can a's "with" be replaced with "by"? And b's "through" by "by or with"?
I think "with" is mostly for tools, "by" for "actions or vehicles" and "through" is vague.
Prepositions for means or method like "by, with, through" don't seem to have clear distinctions.

a)Write your answer with(by?) a black pen, not with(by?) a red one.
b)Distance learning through(by? with?) the Internet is becoming more popular.

hgi162

 

[bhaisahab]

Can a's "with" be replaced with "by"? And b's "through" by "by or with"?
I think "with" is mostly for tools, "by" for "actions or vehicles" and "through" is vague.
Prepositions for means or method like "by, with, through" don't seem to have clear distinctions.

a)Write your answer with(by?) a black pen, not with(by?) a red one.
b)Distance learning through(by? with?) the Internet is becoming more popular.

hgi162

In a), only "with" is possible.
In b) "with" is possible.

 

[keannu]

Could you tell me the reason in detail?

 

[bhaisahab]

Could you tell me the reason in detail?

"Write your answer by a black pen" is not natural English. No native speaker would say that.

 

[keannu]

You seem to say "with" and "through" are interchangeable in terms of means.So can you use either with or through but not by for "You can connect to the internet with(through) this cell phone"?

 

[philo2009]

Can a's "with" be replaced with "by"? And b's "through" by "by or with"?
I think "with" is mostly for tools, "by" for "actions or vehicles" and "through" is vague.
Prepositions for means or method like "by, with, through" don't seem to have clear distinctions.

a)Write your answer with(by?) a black pen, not with(by?) a red one.
b)Distance learning through(by? with?) the Internet is becoming more popular.

hgi162

The pen is a tool for writing; thus 'with' is the natural choice of preposition.

 

[keannu]

Is it because "by" is usually used as a doer like in passive tenses? So black pen can't be a doer?

 

[sumon.]

Not a teacher
I understand why you are trying to use 'by'( It's specially for mother tongue) . But 'pen' can not be a 'doer'. The writer is the the 'doer' and he writes with the pen.

 

[SirGod]

Is it because "by" is usually used as a doer like in passive tenses? So black pen can't be a doer?

* Not a teacher

You try to find (at least you seem doing that) an explanation for everything. I am sorry to disappoint you, but you will not find an explanation for everything neither in English nor in other languages. It merely is that way. Your posts show me that you have a very good command of English, so why do you bother making English an indefinite set of rules?

 

[BobSmith]

It merely is that way. ... why do you bother making English an indefinite set of rules?

This seems like very strange advice to me. How is a learner (or even a native speaker!) supposed to know when to stop cataloging the rules? Often you'll get to "that's just the way it is" only to find out the person[SUP]*[/SUP] claiming this is wrong.


*I'm not suggesting anything personal here.

 

[SirGod]

This seems like very strange advice to me. How is a learner (or even a native speaker!) supposed to know when to stop cataloging the rules? Often you'll get to "that's just the way it is" only to find out the person[SUP]*[/SUP] claiming this is wrong.


*I'm not suggesting anything personal here.

You got me wrong. I didn't say that a learner was supposed to stop cataloguing the rules. What I am trying to say is that a learner (or a native speaker) should understand that there is not an explanation for everything. And when an experienced teacher says that something is wrong because it is not natural, you should simply accept it. I say that this is not a "rule" to add to your catalogue (you don't stop cataloguing the rules, but you do not add this one).

Maybe I am wrong, I am not a teacher, I am not even a native speaker. I just share opinions, I am no authority to follow. But you should follow teacher's pieces of advice.

I don't say that it's bad to be a hair-splitter, but sometimes there's nothing to split. You take that as it is.

In conclusion, as my (bad) opinions don't seem to be constructive in any way to keanuu's threads, I will stop giving them, even if an opinion, poor or good, doesn't hurt anybody.

 

[bhaisahab]

You got me wrong. I didn't say that a learner was supposed to stop cataloguing the rules. What I am trying to say is that a learner (or a native speaker) should understand that there is not an explanation for everything. And when an experienced teacher says that something is wrong because it is not natural, you should simply accept it. I say that this is not a "rule" to add to your catalogue (you don't stop cataloguing the rules, but you do not add this one).

Maybe I am wrong, I am not a teacher, I am not even a native speaker. I just share opinions, I am no authority to follow. But you should follow teacher's pieces of advice.

I don't say that it's bad to be a hair-splitter, but sometimes there's nothing to split. You take that as it is.

In conclusion, as my (bad) opinions don't seem to be constructive in any way to keanuu's threads, I will stop giving them, even if an opinion, poor or good, doesn't hurt anybody.

You made a valid and useful contribution in my opinion.

 

[shannico]

You use with because, as Philo said, you are using a tool (pen) to carry out an action (writing). It's just the exact same as saying "draw with a pencil", "sew with thread and needle", "cut with scissors or a knife", etc... There isn't much to explain other than that.
Hope it helps.

 

[philo2009]

Yes, that is the most typical use of 'by' and, as you have yourself observed, certainly is not applicable here...